Confidence encountred: or, A vindication of the lawfulness of preaching without ordination. In answer to a book published by N.E. a friend of Mr. Tho Willes, intituled, The confident questionist questioned. Together with an answer to a letter of Mr. Tho. Willes, published in the said book. By which the lawfulness of preaching without ordination is cleared, and the ordination of the national ministers proved to be a nullity. By Jer. Ives.
yet know, that this was nothing but the violent beatings of the Waves and Billows of your ambition, which I thought necessary to put a check to, by this ensuing Answer,
yet know, that this was nothing but the violent beatings of the Waves and Billows of your ambition, which I Thought necessary to put a check to, by this ensuing Answer,
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I Shall first begin with your Title, wherein you call me a Confident Questionist: but if you had read my Epistle, you would have found, that I did question,
I Shall First begin with your Title, wherein you call me a Confident Questionist: but if you had read my Epistle, you would have found, that I did question,
and withal, did propound to the Reader, that if the Answers thereunto did satisfie, I should bless the Father of Lights that had not suffered me to labour in vain.
and withal, did propound to the Reader, that if the Answers thereunto did satisfy, I should bless the Father of Lights that had not suffered me to labour in vain.
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You proceed to an Epistle, where you tell your Reader, That if he be a Friend to Truth, he probably hath ere this been grieved to see the host of Israel routed, &c. and the Ministery SO MUCH shattered, &c. why then do you glory and cry victoria, if the Clergy, which you call the Host of Israel, be routed? should not you mourn,
You proceed to an Epistle, where you tell your Reader, That if he be a Friend to Truth, he probably hath ere this been grieved to see the host of Israel routed, etc. and the Ministry SO MUCH shattered, etc. why then do you glory and cry victoria, if the Clergy, which you call the Host of Israel, be routed? should not you mourn,
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what need is there for the Reader to grieve, if Mr. Willes hath routed and shattered the choicest Ranks of his Enemies? (unless you flatter Mr. Willes, and deal truely with your Reader) for is not this strange, that you tell your Reader, the Lords Host is routed;
what need is there for the Reader to grieve, if Mr. Willes hath routed and shattered the Choicest Ranks of his Enemies? (unless you flatter Mr. Wills, and deal truly with your Reader) for is not this strange, that you tell your Reader, the lords Host is routed;
and yet flatter with Mr. Willes, and tell him, the Enemy is routed? And by this you may see, that you are so unfit to be an Armour-Bearer in this Warfare, that you justly deserve to be chashiered the Camp for your false Intelligence.
and yet flatter with Mr. Wills, and tell him, the Enemy is routed? And by this you may see, that you Are so unfit to be an Armour-Bearer in this Warfare, that you justly deserve to be chashiered the Camp for your false Intelligence.
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You go on, and tell your Reader, That if Mr. Brookes or his Church, invited me to be the Patron of their cause, you might guess them to be miserably baffled, &c. First,
You go on, and tell your Reader, That if Mr. Brookes or his Church, invited me to be the Patron of their cause, you might guess them to be miserably baffled, etc. First,
You tell your Reader, That he cannot expect Mr. Willes should hinder his more serious discussion of this weighty point, to take notice of my slight Queries.
You tell your Reader, That he cannot expect Mr. Willes should hinder his more serious discussion of this weighty point, to take notice of my slight Queries.
This, I confess, is an easie way to confute the strongest Arguments, for a man that is contrary minded, to call them slight; and say, he is not at leasure to answer them.
This, I confess, is an easy Way to confute the Strongest Arguments, for a man that is contrary minded, to call them slight; and say, he is not At leisure to answer them.
I proceed now to take notice of your Epistle to Mr. Willes, in which you tell him, my grounds are slight, &c. This triumphing of yours, is but like that which Job speaks of, that is but for a moment, Job 20.5.
I proceed now to take notice of your Epistle to Mr. Wills, in which you tell him, my grounds Are slight, etc. This triumphing of yours, is but like that which Job speaks of, that is but for a moment, Job 20.5.
You demand of Mr. Willes, in what sence he asserted the baptizing the Children of wicked Parents, &c. and you presume he means onely such as are Church-Members,
You demand of Mr. Wills, in what sense he asserted the baptizing the Children of wicked Parents, etc. and you presume he means only such as Are Church-Members,
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You further ask Mr. Willes, Whether he did positively assert me to be a Jesuite, &c. Surely, you did not think Mr. Willes had so much to do as you made your Reader believe even now, that you ask him so needless a Question:
You further ask Mr. Wills, Whither he did positively assert me to be a Jesuit, etc. Surely, you did not think Mr. Willes had so much to do as you made your Reader believe even now, that you ask him so needless a Question:
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for did I say or intimate that Mr. Willes did positively assert me to be a Jesuite? why did you not ask him whether I had two hands or three? it had been as much to your purpose. But to proceed.
for did I say or intimate that Mr. Willes did positively assert me to be a Jesuit? why did you not ask him whither I had two hands or three? it had been as much to your purpose. But to proceed.
You tell him, That if any thing appear in print in answer to the whole, it will beg his patronage of its cause, &c. If he did not father it, it would be an Orphan,
You tell him, That if any thing appear in print in answer to the Whole, it will beg his patronage of its cause, etc. If he did not father it, it would be an Orphan,
since you thus beg for his Patronage? Surely, you thought your Wine to be mix'd with Water, that you beg Mr. Willes his Bush to hang at your Door, that so it might sell the better, and not be questioned.
since you thus beg for his Patronage? Surely, you Thought your Wine to be mixed with Water, that you beg Mr. Willes his Bush to hang At your Door, that so it might fell the better, and not be questioned.
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The next thing that followeth in your Book is Mr. Willes his Letter, wherein he tells you, That the people were so rude that it might have proved to my peril,
The next thing that follows in your Book is Mr. Willes his letter, wherein he tells you, That the people were so rude that it might have proved to my peril,
if he had not pacified them, &c. This shews what Spirit your Churches are filled withal, that it is perillous for a man to ask a Question among them, though never so soberly:
if he had not pacified them, etc. This shows what Spirit your Churches Are filled withal, that it is perilous for a man to ask a Question among them, though never so soberly:
for no man in his wits will believe that they were of Mr. Brookes his Church that were so much my Enemies, seeing (you say) I came to be a Patron to their cause.
for no man in his wits will believe that they were of Mr. Brookes his Church that were so much my Enemies, seeing (you say) I Come to be a Patron to their cause.
So then, this is your Champion's Argument, which is like Goliah 's Sword in his hand, the Proposition being, That he is no Minister of Christ, either by a lawful Ordination, or by any pretended necessity:
So then, this is your Champion's Argument, which is like Goliath is Sword in his hand, the Proposition being, That he is no Minister of christ, either by a lawful Ordination, or by any pretended necessity:
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Again, doth not Christ say, That he that comes not in at the door, is a thief and a robber? Now though I granted that there was no other lawful way of coming into the Office,
Again, does not christ say, That he that comes not in At the door, is a thief and a robber? Now though I granted that there was no other lawful Way of coming into the Office,
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The next thing Mr. Willes takes notice of in his Answer to your Letter, is that which he spake about the baptizing the Children of wicked Parents, which he saith are such Children, whose Parents are not juridically ejected by excommunication, &c. His Reformation, as I have told, is so good, that none deserves Excommunication;
The next thing Mr. Wills Takes notice of in his Answer to your letter, is that which he spoke about the baptizing the Children of wicked Parents, which he Says Are such Children, whose Parents Are not juridically ejected by excommunication, etc. His Reformation, as I have told, is so good, that none deserves Excommunication;
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because sometimes God chuseth them that are wicked Mens Children, Doth not this Argument plead as much for the Children of those that are excommunicated? may not God chuse the Children of such as well the Children of others? and doth not the Children of wicked excommunicated Parents, stand in need of an Obligation to Holiness,
Because sometime God chooseth them that Are wicked Men's Children, Does not this Argument plead as much for the Children of those that Are excommunicated? may not God choose the Children of such as well the Children of Others? and does not the Children of wicked excommunicated Parents, stand in need of an Obligation to Holiness,
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as well as the Children of those wicked Parents that are not excommunicated? and yet this man saith, That wicked mens Children, the worse their Parents are, the more need their Children have of Baptism:
as well as the Children of those wicked Parents that Are not excommunicated? and yet this man Says, That wicked men's Children, the Worse their Parents Are, the more need their Children have of Baptism:
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I shall refer them to my Book, entituled, Infants Baptism disproved; by which you will see Mr. Willes his false Aspersion wiped away, viz. That I sought to colour my Opinion, which was against the Baptizing of any infants.
I shall refer them to my Book, entitled, Infants Baptism disproved; by which you will see Mr. Willes his false Aspersion wiped away, viz. That I sought to colour my Opinion, which was against the Baptizing of any Infants.
For not onely my Book testifies my willingness to own my Opinion publickly, but I did tell Mr. Willes to his Face, that I would prove it unlawful to baptize any Infant; as many can witness.
For not only my Book Testifies my willingness to own my Opinion publicly, but I did tell Mr. Willes to his Face, that I would prove it unlawful to baptise any Infant; as many can witness.
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Is not this a brave stroke? do you reckon this one of his fatal blows he hath given the Adversary, by telling them their Breath is as the smoak of the bottomless Pit? but it is but AS SOME DO INTERPRET.
Is not this a brave stroke? do you reckon this one of his fatal blows he hath given the Adversary, by telling them their Breath is as the smoke of the bottomless Pit? but it is but AS SOME DO INTERPRET.
when you tell him you presume to be his Armor-Bearer? and in a Complement tell him, That you were a spectator of those furious strokes, whereby he shattered the choisest Ranks of his Enemies,
when you tell him you presume to be his Armor-Bearer? and in a Compliment tell him, That you were a spectator of those furious Strokes, whereby he shattered the Choicest Ranks of his Enemies,
and those battels fought? and when it was that this Victory was obtained, that you so much glory in? and what the Names of those choice Champions were, that fell by his fatal blows? Methinks,
and those battles fought? and when it was that this Victory was obtained, that you so much glory in? and what the Names of those choice Champions were, that fell by his fatal blows? Methinks,
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if you were a Spectator (as you say you were) of these great Conflicts, you can resolve these Questions, that so you may comfort your grieving Reader, who yet doth believe your first words that you told him, viz. That your Army was routed, which you called the host of Israel.
if you were a Spectator (as you say you were) of these great Conflicts, you can resolve these Questions, that so you may Comfort your grieving Reader, who yet does believe your First words that you told him, viz. That your Army was routed, which you called the host of Israel.
and though you boast upon the putting on of your Armor, as though you were so dreadful, that your Enemy would flee when he heard of you, (for by concealing your Name, you thought I should never see you) yet know, that it had been better and more modest for you to have gloried when you had put your Armor off.
and though you boast upon the putting on of your Armour, as though you were so dreadful, that your Enemy would flee when he herd of you, (for by concealing your Name, you Thought I should never see you) yet know, that it had been better and more modest for you to have gloried when you had put your Armour off.
and tell me, That you hope your rashness is not so great, as Eliabs was to David, 1 Sam. 17.18, 28. if you say, that it is my business to carry Loaves and Cheese to the Camp, out of the pride and naughtiness of my Heart, that I above all others should single out a Champion to encounter with, &c. If your rashness be not so great as Eliabs to David, it seems it is rashness, though not so great;
and tell me, That you hope your rashness is not so great, as Eliab's was to David, 1 Sam. 17.18, 28. if you say, that it is my business to carry Loaves and Cheese to the Camp, out of the pride and naughtiness of my Heart, that I above all Others should single out a Champion to encounter with, etc. If your rashness be not so great as Eliab's to David, it seems it is rashness, though not so great;
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as not onely your words do intimate, but the story you allude to, 1 Sam. 17.18, 28. by which your Reader may see you compare your self to Eliab, and me to David, who carried Loaves and Cheese to the Army;
as not only your words do intimate, but the story you allude to, 1 Sam. 17.18, 28. by which your Reader may see you compare your self to Eliab, and me to David, who carried Loaves and Cheese to the Army;
and Mr. Willes the Champion that you say I have singled out to encounter, you very craftily compare him to Goliah: and by this you justifie me in my Encounter,
and Mr. Willes the Champion that you say I have singled out to encounter, you very craftily compare him to Goliath: and by this you justify me in my Encounter,
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as David did to Israel. By this the Reader may see, that you had so great a stomach to be nibling at the Bread and Cheese, that you had wholly forgot your cause.
as David did to Israel. By this the Reader may see, that you had so great a stomach to be nibbling At the Bred and Cheese, that you had wholly forgotten your cause.
First, was not all the audience concerned as well as Mr. Brookes, in what Mr. Willes delivered? since he told them how dangerous it was to hear men that were not ordained.
First, was not all the audience concerned as well as Mr. Brookes, in what Mr. Willes Delivered? since he told them how dangerous it was to hear men that were not ordained.
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Fifthly, is it not greater incivility for you to take upon you to answer a particular paper, which was particulary directed to Mr. Willes? This surely savours more of arrogancy then any thing that I have done.
Fifthly, is it not greater incivility for you to take upon you to answer a particular paper, which was particular directed to Mr. Wills? This surely savours more of arrogance then any thing that I have done.
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But how was this oversight committed, that your God-Fathers and God-Mothers did not give you one in your Baptism? or are you not yet baptized? if you are not, was it because your Father was excommunicated,
But how was this oversight committed, that your God-Fathers and God-Mothers did not give you one in your Baptism? or Are you not yet baptised? if you Are not, was it Because your Father was excommunicated,
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and in giving the Lord's Supper to prophane and scandalous persons: who hath required these (and lay-Elders, with such-like Innovations) at your hands?
and in giving the Lord's Supper to profane and scandalous Persons: who hath required these (and Lay elders, with suchlike Innovations) At your hands?
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and whether publick teaching be not an act of that Office, as well as baptism, being both in the same commission, Mat. 28.19. &c. and whether unordained men are not usurpers of that Office &c. This is the sum of your Question:
and whither public teaching be not an act of that Office, as well as Baptism, being both in the same commission, Mathew 28.19. etc. and whither unordained men Are not usurpers of that Office etc. This is the sum of your Question:
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Again, though Preaching be an act of Office as well as Baptizing, doth it therefore follow that none may Preach out of Office? May not a man as well say, That visiting the sick,
Again, though Preaching be an act of Office as well as Baptizing, does it Therefore follow that none may Preach out of Office? May not a man as well say, That visiting the sick,
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and praying, and reproving them that sin, and to exhort in private, are acts of the Ministers Office as well as Baptizing? doth it therefore follow, that it is a sin to do these acts out of Office? So that it is one thing to do these acts as Christian,
and praying, and reproving them that sin, and to exhort in private, Are acts of the Ministers Office as well as Baptizing? does it Therefore follow, that it is a since to do these acts out of Office? So that it is one thing to do these acts as Christian,
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onely you ask me, Whether I am in office, and how I came to it, and by whom ordained, &c. I answer, That when I am in Office, I shall tell you how I came in:
only you ask me, Whither I am in office, and how I Come to it, and by whom ordained, etc. I answer, That when I am in Office, I shall tell you how I Come in:
The next thing then that you demand in this sixth Query, is, How can he preach by vertue of the Ministers consent, in relation to an Office, that owns not their power to ordain him? &c. And how can I be satisfied with the power of the Church to ordain? &c. I answer to the last first, That this is the same with the later part of the fifth Query.
The next thing then that you demand in this sixth Query, is, How can he preach by virtue of the Ministers consent, in Relation to an Office, that owns not their power to ordain him? etc. And how can I be satisfied with the power of the Church to ordain? etc. I answer to the last First, That this is the same with the later part of the fifth Query.
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You go on, and ask me to shew some law that a man may exercise part of that Office he is not invested in, &c. because I query whether a man should sin to preach out of Office,
You go on, and ask me to show Some law that a man may exercise part of that Office he is not invested in, etc. Because I query whither a man should sin to preach out of Office,
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yet he doth not turn out men from preaching, because they have not faithful Children, not because they have not so good a command of their passion as they ought,
yet he does not turn out men from preaching, Because they have not faithful Children, not Because they have not so good a command of their passion as they ought,
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So that by the Judgement of his Highness to whom you refer me, and the Ministers at White-Hall, there is much more reason why a man able and godly, may preach that is not ordained,
So that by the Judgement of his Highness to whom you refer me, and the Ministers At Whitehall, there is much more reason why a man able and godly, may preach that is not ordained,
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and yet you tell your Reader, That there is as much weight in yours, Why may not a man preach that is prophane? as there is in my Query, viz., Why may not a man that is gifted to preach the Gospel to Edification and Comfort, preach out of Office;
and yet you tell your Reader, That there is as much weight in yours, Why may not a man preach that is profane? as there is in my Query, viz., Why may not a man that is gifted to preach the Gospel to Edification and Comfort, preach out of Office;
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Now pray consider, That to relieve the poor is an act of the Deacons Office, doth it therefore follow, that none but Officers may relieve the poor? should I sin to minister to the poor out of Office? and is he that receives an Alms as bad as a Thief,
Now pray Consider, That to relieve the poor is an act of the Deacons Office, does it Therefore follow, that none but Officers may relieve the poor? should I sin to minister to the poor out of Office? and is he that receives an Alms as bad as a Thief,
but therefore may he not give of his own, because he cannot as an Officer give of the Churches? So because I may not preach from another Man's stock, may I not preach from my own,
but Therefore may he not give of his own, Because he cannot as an Officer give of the Churches? So Because I may not preach from Another Man's stock, may I not preach from my own,
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And he subjoyneth in the next Verse, If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God, Ver. 11. So that by comparing these Verses together, you will finde, that a man may as lawfully preach,
And he subjoineth in the next Verse, If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God, Ver. 11. So that by comparing these Verses together, you will find, that a man may as lawfully preach,
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and whereas I ask whether Apollos did not preach the Gospel, as is recorded Act. 18.24, 25, 26, 27, 28, &c. you reply by asking me, Whether I ought not to have answered Doctor Seamore and others.
and whereas I ask whither Apollos did not preach the Gospel, as is recorded Act. 18.24, 25, 26, 27, 28, etc. you reply by asking me, Whither I ought not to have answered Doctor Seamore and Others.
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You proceed, and tell me, page 22. That Apollos taught where (you say) we read but of two Christians, Aquila and Priscilla, and those Paul brought with him, &c. I answer, That our Question is not how few or how many Christians were Apollos Auditors;
You proceed, and tell me, page 22. That Apollos taught where (you say) we read but of two Christians, Aquila and Priscilla, and those Paul brought with him, etc. I answer, That our Question is not how few or how many Christians were Apollos Auditors;
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However, you grant that there was Aquila and Priscilla, and those Christians that Paul brought with him which he preached to, which were enough to make a Christian Congregation,
However, you grant that there was Aquila and Priscilla, and those Christians that Paul brought with him which he preached to, which were enough to make a Christian Congregation,
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Therefore if he did preach to the people aforesaid, ( viz. Aquila and Priscilla, and those Christians that Paul brought with him) publickly and constantly,
Therefore if he did preach to the people aforesaid, (viz. Aquila and Priscilla, and those Christians that Paul brought with him) publicly and constantly,
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But you proceed, and ask me, If a particular example of a Church not constituted, be a rule for ordinary practice in a Church that is, &c. And further you ask, If Apollos was not in Office, and therefore called a Minister, 1 Cor. 3.5.
But you proceed, and ask me, If a particular Exampl of a Church not constituted, be a Rule for ordinary practice in a Church that is, etc. And further you ask, If Apollos was not in Office, and Therefore called a Minister, 1 Cor. 3.5.
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Secondly, Do you not say, That Apollos was an Officer? what then did hinder them from being a constituted Church? The Scriptures say, Christs Church is his Body:
Secondly, Do you not say, That Apollos was an Officer? what then did hinder them from being a constituted Church? The Scriptures say, Christ Church is his Body:
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and that John did not anthorize him? and ought I not to prove that he was not in Office thus? and ought I not to prove there was no necessity? and how do I prove he was not called, or in Office? &c. To which I answer, That you are an excellent Armour-Bearer:
and that John did not anthorize him? and ought I not to prove that he was not in Office thus? and ought I not to prove there was no necessity? and how do I prove he was not called, or in Office? etc. To which I answer, That you Are an excellent Armour-Bearer:
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Is this your Armour of proof? when a man demands of you how you prove that such a thing was, you answer by asking your Respondent how he proves it was not.
Is this your Armour of proof? when a man demands of you how you prove that such a thing was, you answer by asking your Respondent how he Proves it was not.
Your first Reason is, He watered the Churches that Paul had planted, 1 Cor. 3.6. 1 Cor. 16.12. Let's try this Argument, and put it into a form, and then it will be thus: viz.
Your First Reason is, He watered the Churches that Paul had planted, 1 Cor. 3.6. 1 Cor. 16.12. Let's try this Argument, and put it into a from, and then it will be thus: viz.
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You go on, and ask me, If Apollo 's worth and name was not the head of a Faction, 1 Cor. 1.12. This is your second Argument to prove that certainly he was in Office.
You go on, and ask me, If Apollo is worth and name was not the head of a Faction, 1 Cor. 1.12. This is your second Argument to prove that Certainly he was in Office.
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seeing that he preaches Christ, and is esteemed for his worth and name, and (as your selves say) he is the Head of a Faction? how dare you deny Mr. Brookes to be an Officer,
seeing that he Preaches christ, and is esteemed for his worth and name, and (as your selves say) he is the Head of a Faction? how Dare you deny Mr. Brookes to be an Officer,
Whether the Apostolical Institution was practiced at that time? or, Whether Apollos knew of such a thing as Ordination to be had from the Apostles? And do you not further say, Here was evident necessity?
Whither the Apostolical Institution was practiced At that time? or, Whither Apollos knew of such a thing as Ordination to be had from the Apostles? And do you not further say, Here was evident necessity?
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yet you do presently conclude, that he was ordained a Minister in the same sence as Paul was, at the time that he preached in the Synagogue, Act. 18. and bid me shew if he was not then ordained,
yet you do presently conclude, that he was ordained a Minister in the same sense as Paul was, At the time that he preached in the Synagogue, Act. 18. and bid me show if he was not then ordained,
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To your three last Proposals touching Apollos, where you urge the preaching of Apollos, rather then Aquila and the Brethrens receiving him, Act. 18.27.
To your three last Proposals touching Apollos, where you urge the preaching of Apollos, rather then Aquila and the Brothers' receiving him, Act. 18.27.
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For doth not the Apostle say, Rom. 16. That Aquila and Priscilla were his helpers in Christ? May I not as well conclude, that both these were Officers,
For does not the Apostle say, Rom. 16. That Aquila and Priscilla were his helpers in christ? May I not as well conclude, that both these were Officers,
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because they were helpers in Christ, as you may conclude Apollos was an Officer, because he helped them that did believe? Is not this wild reasoning? and doth the Brethrens receiving Apollos, prove therefore that he was an Officer? then if you should have occasion to go to Geneva, and should be received upon Willes his Letter of Recommendation;
Because they were helpers in christ, as you may conclude Apollos was an Officer, Because he helped them that did believe? Is not this wild reasoning? and does the Brothers' receiving Apollos, prove Therefore that he was an Officer? then if you should have occasion to go to Geneva, and should be received upon Wills his letter of Recommendation;
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it seems this would prove you to be an Officer: you say, it was such a receiving as is spoken of, Mat. 10.40. where it is said, He that receiveth the Disciples of Christ, receiveth Christ.
it seems this would prove you to be an Officer: you say, it was such a receiving as is spoken of, Mathew 10.40. where it is said, He that receives the Disciples of christ, receives christ.
I demand, whether the mentioning the one doth in reason exclude the other, any more then the Scriptures saying, That he, viz. Apollos, helped them that believed, doth exclude Aquila from this service?
I demand, whither the mentioning the one does in reason exclude the other, any more then the Scriptures saying, That he, viz. Apollos, helped them that believed, does exclude Aquila from this service?
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then you have given away your cause, by telling of us, that they may exhort one another when they are thus met, which is an act of the Ministers Office:
then you have given away your cause, by telling of us, that they may exhort one Another when they Are thus met, which is an act of the Ministers Office:
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But where is your Text that gives M. Willes a toleration to hear M. Brooks, if to hear him be sinful? And for your similitudes which you bring in stead of a proof, do not they in the first place take that for granted which you are to prove, viz. That M. Willes is a Captain,
But where is your Text that gives M. Wills a toleration to hear M. Brooks, if to hear him be sinful? And for your Similitudes which you bring in stead of a proof, do not they in the First place take that for granted which you Are to prove, viz. That M. Wills is a Captain,
and whether he is not an Offender, if he shall run into the Enemies quarters without leave from his General? and by the Generals leave a Souldier may go as well as he:
and whither he is not an Offender, if he shall run into the Enemies quarters without leave from his General? and by the Generals leave a Soldier may go as well as he:
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Do you not by this make all the Martyrs in Queen Maries dayes to be guilty of their own Blood, in that they chose rather to burn then run? were not most of those that opposed the Wolf at that time, Sheep and not Shepherds? for, to their shame be it spoken, the poor Sheep stood by it when most of the Shepherds entred a League with the Wolf?
Do you not by this make all the Martyrs in Queen Mary's days to be guilty of their own Blood, in that they chosen rather to burn then run? were not most of those that opposed the Wolf At that time, Sheep and not Shepherd's? for, to their shame be it spoken, the poor Sheep stood by it when most of the Shepherd's entered a League with the Wolf?
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because they were sick of the Plague? By this Rule, it would be a sin in Mr. Willes, to visit any of his Parish that should be sick of the Plague, because he is no Physician.
Because they were sick of the Plague? By this Rule, it would be a since in Mr. Wills, to visit any of his Parish that should be sick of the Plague, Because he is no physician.
you demand, Whether that Text hath the least ground for gifted Brethrens teaching? And all you say first and last amounts but to this, Whether it is understood of actual teaching? &c. To which I answer, that these Queries grounded upon my twelfth Question, do come so far short of an Answer, that it doth not counter-query the things that I have proposed:
you demand, Whither that Text hath the least ground for gifted Brothers' teaching? And all you say First and last amounts but to this, Whither it is understood of actual teaching? etc. To which I answer, that these Queries grounded upon my twelfth Question, do come so Far short of an Answer, that it does not Counter-query the things that I have proposed:
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Pray, doth not a Master in a Family teach as a Steward? and is not every good Christian to give an account of his Stewardship? and doth not the Apostle Peter say, 1 Pet. 4.10.
Pray, does not a Master in a Family teach as a Steward? and is not every good Christian to give an account of his Stewardship? and does not the Apostle Peter say, 1 Pet. 4.10.
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of every good Christian, That he is to minister as a good Steward of the manifold grace of God? and yet you are so ignorant as to tell us, That the Apostle exhorts to teach, but not as Stewards.
of every good Christian, That he is to minister as a good Steward of the manifold grace of God? and yet you Are so ignorant as to tell us, That the Apostle exhorts to teach, but not as Stewards.
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And for your saying, That this Text is spoken in general terms, viz. ye ought to teach, and that therefore it may respect womens teaching in the Church as well as men:
And for your saying, That this Text is spoken in general terms, viz. you ought to teach, and that Therefore it may respect women's teaching in the Church as well as men:
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You query from those Queries that I ground upon 1 Cor. 14.1, 24, 31. Why I did not consult the London - Ministers, &c. saying, That it is vain-glory in me to make the world believe that these men have done nothing worthy my regard. &c.
You query from those Queries that I ground upon 1 Cor. 14.1, 24, 31. Why I did not consult the London - Ministers, etc. saying, That it is vainglory in me to make the world believe that these men have done nothing worthy my regard. etc.
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I answer as formerly, If they have done enough, what needs this waste that you make by writing more? could you not in a few lines have referred your Reader to them for the solutions of my Questions, without any more ado?
I answer as formerly, If they have done enough, what needs this waste that you make by writing more? could you not in a few lines have referred your Reader to them for the Solutions of my Questions, without any more ado?
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for surely, the greatness of their Gifts could not tolerate them to Preach contrary to a Divine Institution, seeing there was no necessity, it being a constituted Church (as you call it) that had Officers in it.
for surely, the greatness of their Gifts could not tolerate them to Preach contrary to a Divine Institution, seeing there was no necessity, it being a constituted Church (as you call it) that had Officers in it.
But pray Sir, though all the Sergeants about the Town may lawfully seek for such a place, may all the people about the Town seek lawfully for a Judges place when it falls? for this is the case;
But pray Sir, though all the Sergeants about the Town may lawfully seek for such a place, may all the people about the Town seek lawfully for a Judges place when it falls? for this is the case;
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You say, My fourteenth Query is worth nothing, onely (you say) why may not our whole Church covet as well to be ordinary Officers as to be preaching gifted Brethren? and if because it is monstrous to have so many ruling Heads, is it not (say you) as monstrous to have as many speaking Tongues?
You say, My fourteenth Query is worth nothing, only (you say) why may not our Whole Church covet as well to be ordinary Officers as to be preaching gifted Brothers? and if Because it is monstrous to have so many ruling Heads, is it not (say you) as monstrous to have as many speaking Tongues?
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I come to examine, since Mr. Willes told the people, That it is a sin for any to preach that are not ordained, &c. which of those several Ordinations in Christendome, it is that Christ approves of.
I come to examine, since Mr. Willes told the people, That it is a since for any to preach that Are not ordained, etc. which of those several Ordinations in Christendom, it is that christ approves of.
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Hereupon, after some Questions made touching the business of Ordination, which is not at all to the Question before you, you demand of me, Whether you may not say, That all Ordinations in Christendome are approved by Christ, that differ but thus circumst antially? &c. I answer, Why did you not say so then, That all the Ordinations in Christendome are accepted by Christ, without asking my leave? But then you must know.
Hereupon, After Some Questions made touching the business of Ordination, which is not At all to the Question before you, you demand of me, Whither you may not say, That all Ordinations in Christendom Are approved by christ, that differ but thus Circumstance antially? etc. I answer, Why did you not say so then, That all the Ordinations in Christendom Are accepted by christ, without asking my leave? But then you must know.
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if but in circumstance, then if you dare speak out, doth not Christ approve of her Administration of it at this day, by what you say in the later end of this Query? But to proceed to the next, in which,
if but in circumstance, then if you Dare speak out, does not christ approve of her Administration of it At this day, by what you say in the later end of this Query? But to proceed to the next, in which,
I demand, If a Man might not lawfully by this Opinion be ordained at Rome? And thereupon you query, Whether I dare say that Rome observes that Gospel purity in this Ordinance?
I demand, If a Man might not lawfully by this Opinion be ordained At Room? And thereupon you query, Whither I Dare say that Room observes that Gospel purity in this Ordinance?
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The third is in case of nocessity, &c. you say, is this our case now? and can we not have it with more purity then at Rome? &c. Sir, I am not about to ask you, Whether it may not more purely be had;
The third is in case of nocessity, etc. you say, is this our case now? and can we not have it with more purity then At Room? etc. Sir, I am not about to ask you, Whither it may not more purely be had;
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But to proceed, It seems then by your Query, if a man doth not think the Church of Rome erres in any thing (as those do that go thither for Ordination) then he being ignorant of their errors, may lawfully be ordained there,
But to proceed, It seems then by your Query, if a man does not think the Church of Room erres in any thing (as those do that go thither for Ordination) then he being ignorant of their errors, may lawfully be ordained there,
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are you not indulging the Church of Rome? But to proceed. I demanded, If the Protestant Ordination be the onely lawful Ordination, then which of those,
Are you not indulging the Church of Rome? But to proceed. I demanded, If the Protestant Ordination be the only lawful Ordination, then which of those,
whether Episcopal, Presbyterian or Independent, be that which Christ approves of, &c. Thereupon you query, Whether you may not say, All are approved by Christ?
whither Episcopal, Presbyterian or Independent, be that which christ approves of, etc. Thereupon you query, Whither you may not say, All Are approved by christ?
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But doth all you have said signifie Christ's approbation of all these? have you urged any thing but that which is as disputable as the thing in question;
But does all you have said signify Christ's approbation of all these? have you urged any thing but that which is as disputable as the thing in question;
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and so endeavour to prove one doubtful thing by another? for you ask me, If that I do not easily see all these, viz. the Episcopal, Presbyterian, and the most sober Independents, own the essence of Ordination, that is, (say you) a setting apart men to the Ministery by Ministers,
and so endeavour to prove one doubtful thing by Another? for you ask me, If that I do not Easily see all these, viz. the Episcopal, Presbyterian, and the most Sobrium Independents, own the essence of Ordination, that is, (say you) a setting apart men to the Ministry by Ministers,
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but if it was so easie for me to see, why was it not as easie for you to have proved it? is this to reason rationally? or is it not that which a Scholar, that values either credit or conscience, would scorn, viz. to take it for granted all these Ministers are such,
but if it was so easy for me to see, why was it not as easy for you to have proved it? is this to reason rationally? or is it not that which a Scholar, that value's either credit or conscience, would scorn, viz. to take it for granted all these Ministers Are such,
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And because I query if all those Ordinations of Episcopacie and Presbytery, &c. were lawful, (as you confess) then why were these Ordinations opposed one to the other, by the several Patrons of them? This was the substance of that Query.
And Because I query if all those Ordinations of Episcopacy and Presbytery, etc. were lawful, (as you confess) then why were these Ordinations opposed one to the other, by the several Patrons of them? This was the substance of that Query.
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To which I answer, That though I cited him for brevity sake, yet I did refer the Reader to his Book called, Episcopacie asserted, where he cites the Fathers,
To which I answer, That though I cited him for brevity sake, yet I did refer the Reader to his Book called, Episcopacy asserted, where he cites the Father's,
to which you have said nothing, but tell us a story at the third hand of what Bishop Usher told the King of the practice of one particular Church, viz. of Alexandria; and of what the Rubrick saith,
to which you have said nothing, but tell us a story At the third hand of what Bishop Usher told the King of the practice of one particular Church, viz. of Alexandria; and of what the Rubric Says,
And for your citing the London - Ministers, are not they like to be good Witnesses, seeing they are parties that would fain make all Antiquity speak for the things they profess, that the novelty of them may not be suspected?
And for your citing the London - Ministers, Are not they like to be good Witnesses, seeing they Are parties that would fain make all Antiquity speak for the things they profess, that the novelty of them may not be suspected?
But wherein do I speak any thing unlike a Christian? if that be true as you say, viz. That Episcopal Ordination was good, and that they did practice it in the purity of it, without superstitious mixture, as you confess in your seventeenth Query,
But wherein do I speak any thing unlike a Christian? if that be true as you say, viz. That Episcopal Ordination was good, and that they did practice it in the purity of it, without superstitious mixture, as you confess in your seventeenth Query,
You go on, and further demand, Whether I dare assert, that the Presbyterians did throw down the Government of Episcopacy, meerly for this error in Ordination? &c.
You go on, and further demand, Whither I Dare assert, that the Presbyterians did throw down the Government of Episcopacy, merely for this error in Ordination? etc.
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And for your saying, That the Anabaptistical Spirits are bloody, witness those in Germany, &c. I answer, This is an unchristian Charge indeed, and therefore you thought you would cry out first, That others were guilty, that your self might not be suspected:
And for your saying, That the Anabaptistical Spirits Are bloody, witness those in Germany, etc. I answer, This is an unchristian Charge indeed, and Therefore you Thought you would cry out First, That Others were guilty, that your self might not be suspected:
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for, what if that story of Germany were true, (which is doubtful in many things) doth not this shew what Spirit you are of, laying the cause of the late Wars, at the Anabaptists Doors? have they not been as serviceable to their Power, to free their Country from slavery,
for, what if that story of Germany were true, (which is doubtful in many things) does not this show what Spirit you Are of, laying the cause of the late Wars, At the Anabaptists Doors? have they not been as serviceable to their Power, to free their Country from slavery,
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as any, both in Purse and Person? were they the cause of the first and second War in Scotland, and the second War in England? was any of them you call Anabaptists in the treasonable Engagement? who of them did joyn to bring in King Charles again, into Scotland first,
as any, both in Purse and Person? were they the cause of the First and second War in Scotland, and the second War in England? was any of them you call Anabaptists in the treasonable Engagement? who of them did join to bring in King Charles again, into Scotland First,
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But lest you should erre for want of Information, let me shew you, That the Presbyters have been inspired with a worse Spirit, to carry on their Presbyterian-Usurpation,
But lest you should err for want of Information, let me show you, That the Presbyters have been inspired with a Worse Spirit, to carry on their Presbyterian-Usurpation,
I shall begin with Mr. Knox, who in his History of the Reformation of the Church of Scotland, saith, That without the Reformation which they desired, they (meaning the Covenanters) would never be subject to any mortal man.
I shall begin with Mr. Knox, who in his History of the Reformation of the Church of Scotland, Says, That without the Reformation which they desired, they (meaning the Covenanters) would never be Subject to any Mortal man.
They, viz. the Presbyterians, took away the Queens Coyning, Irons by force and arms, and did justifie the same, Knox Hist, page 308. Again, they say, The Commonalty ought to reform Religion, if the King will not.
They, viz. the Presbyterians, took away the Queen's Coining, Irons by force and arms, and did justify the same, Knox Hist, page 308. Again, they say, The Commonalty ought to reform Religion, if the King will not.
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See Knox to the Commonalty, pag. 49, 50. And, That if Princes be Tyrants against God and the truth, their Subjects are freed from their Oaths of Allegiance.
See Knox to the Commonalty, page. 49, 50. And, That if Princes be Tyrants against God and the truth, their Subject's Are freed from their Oaths of Allegiance.
and had power as a civil Migistrate, as Calvin in his Letter to Cardinal Sadolete writeth, Jus gladii alias civilis jurisdictionis partes, &c. And yet without any Honour or Respect, (which they as Christians were bound to give him as their civil Magistrate) they called him a Thief and an Usurper;
and had power as a civil Magistrate, as calvin in his letter to Cardinal Sadolete Writeth, Jus gladii alias Civilis jurisdictionis parts, etc. And yet without any Honour or Respect, (which they as Christians were bound to give him as their civil Magistrate) they called him a Thief and an Usurper;
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since which time it hath been a principle among the Presbyters, as appears by Whittingam in his Preface to Goodman 's Book, where he saith, That if Kings and Princes refuse to reform Religion, the inferiour Magistrates or People, by the direction of the Ministery, might lawfully,
since which time it hath been a principle among the Presbyters, as appears by Whittingham in his Preface to Goodman is Book, where he Says, That if Kings and Princes refuse to reform Religion, the inferior Magistrates or People, by the direction of the Ministry, might lawfully,
I shall in the next place, cite some of Buchanan his Presbyterian-Maximes, out of his Book, entituled, De Jure Regni, pag. 61. he saith, Populus Rege est praestantior & melior:
I shall in the next place, Cite Some of Buchanan his Presbyterian-Maximes, out of his Book, entitled, De Jure Regni, page. 61. he Says, Populus Rege est praestantior & melior:
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This Spirit our old Presbyterians in England were inspired with about the same time, as the Author of the Book of Obedience, (but rather of Rebellion) doth manifest, page 215. in these words, saying, If neither the Magistrate nor the greatest part of the People will do their Offices, in punishing, deposing or killing of Princes, (meaning such as should be against the Presbyterian-Reformation,
This Spirit our old Presbyterians in England were inspired with about the same time, as the Author of the Book of obedience, (but rather of Rebellion) does manifest, page 215. in these words, saying, If neither the Magistrate nor the greatest part of the People will do their Offices, in punishing, deposing or killing of Princes, (meaning such as should be against the Presbyterian-Reformation,
so much then sought after by Calvin ) then (saith he) the Minister may excommunicate such a Prince, pag. 186. And in pag. 110. of the said Book, the Author saith, That in case of defection a private man may kill a Tyrant as Moses did the Egyptian, if he have any special inward motion;
so much then sought After by calvin) then (Says he) the Minister may excommunicate such a Prince, page. 186. And in page. 110. of the said Book, the Author Says, That in case of defection a private man may kill a Tyrant as Moses did the Egyptian, if he have any special inward motion;
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Goodman (who also was in that time as great a stickler for the Presbyterian-Reformation as the rest) saith in his Book, p. 190. Subjects do promise obedience, that the Magistrate may help them;
Goodman (who also was in that time as great a stickler for the Presbyterian-Reformation as the rest) Says in his Book, p. 190. Subjects do promise Obedience, that the Magistrate may help them;
among which, this is observable, The people (saith he) in Numb. 25. did hang up certain of their Heads, &c. which ought (saith he) to be perpetual example of their duty, (meaning the common people) in the like defection from God, to hang up such Rulers as shall draw them from him.
among which, this is observable, The people (Says he) in Numb. 25. did hang up certain of their Heads, etc. which ought (Says he) to be perpetual Exampl of their duty, (meaning the Common people) in the like defection from God, to hang up such Rulers as shall draw them from him.
when Magistrates do not reform according to their humours, saith Whittingam in his Preface to Goodmans Book) was approved by the best learned in Geneva;
when Magistrates do not reform according to their humours, Says Whittingham in his Preface to Goodmans Book) was approved by the best learned in Geneva;
for besides Goodman and Whittingam, there was Anthony Gibly, Miles Coverdale, David Whitehead, and sundry others, who did desire that Goodman 's Book might be printed, to which Whittingam made a Preface, greatly commending the aforesaid bloody Doctrine.
for beside Goodman and Whittingham, there was Anthony Gibly, Miles Coverdale, David Whitehead, and sundry Others, who did desire that Goodman is Book might be printed, to which Whittingham made a Preface, greatly commending the aforesaid bloody Doctrine.
Now whoever shall compare these passages with the practice of Presbytery ever since, both in Scotland and Englend, shall finde, that they have throughly studied this point, viz. of imbruing Nations in Blood,
Now whoever shall compare these passages with the practice of Presbytery ever since, both in Scotland and England, shall find, that they have thoroughly studied this point, viz. of imbruing nations in Blood,
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Hath not England and Scotland, to their great grief, found this to be true, by woful experience? And yet the Anabaptists and Fifth-Monarchy-men, are decried by you and Mr. Willes, as the onely State-Hereticks and Incendiaries,
Hath not England and Scotland, to their great grief, found this to be true, by woeful experience? And yet the Anabaptists and Fifth-Monarchy-men, Are decried by you and Mr. Wills, as the only State-Hereticks and Incendiaries,
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but whoever shall consider of these forecited passages, may conclude, that there was little reason why the Presbyterians should complain of the Jesuites Principles, unless their own were better:
but whoever shall Consider of these forecited passages, may conclude, that there was little reason why the Presbyterians should complain of the Jesuits Principles, unless their own were better:
for, if that be true which Dr. White saith is their special vow, which he mentions in page 573. of his Reply to the Church of Rome, and pag. 577. and pag. 579. where he saith, That the vows of the Jesuites are to execute the Popes pleasure in killing the King:
for, if that be true which Dr. White Says is their special Voelli, which he mentions in page 573. of his Reply to the Church of Rome, and page. 577. and page. 579. where he Says, That the vows of the Jesuits Are to execute the Popes pleasure in killing the King:
and what safety can they have that rely upon such Servants? &c. Which Vow he inserts in Latine in his Margent, out of the Bull of confirmation of the Jesuites, by Pope Paul the third;
and what safety can they have that rely upon such Servants? etc. Which Voelli he inserts in Latin in his Margin, out of the Bull of confirmation of the Jesuits, by Pope Paul the third;
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We judge it expedient for the great Devotion to the Sea Apostolike, and more full abnegation of our own Wills and Pleasures, that the professed of this society, besides the common bond of three vows, be further tied by special vow:
We judge it expedient for the great Devotion to the Sea Apostolic, and more full abnegation of our own Wills and Pleasures, that the professed of this society, beside the Common bound of three vows, be further tied by special Voelli:
And therefore Lysimachus Nicanor, a Jesuite, hath writ a congratulatory Epistle to the Covenanters in Scotland, printed in the yeer 1640. where, in pag. 1 he saith, He heartily doth congratulate with them,
And Therefore Lysimachus Nicanor, a Jesuit, hath writ a congratulatory Epistle to the Covenanters in Scotland, printed in the year 1640. where, in page. 1 he Says, He heartily does congratulate with them,
and doth rejoyce at their begun-return to their Mother the Church of Rome, in that they have forsaken the erronious Opinion of the Protestants, concerning the civil Magistrate,
and does rejoice At their begun-return to their Mother the Church of Rome, in that they have forsaken the erroneous Opinion of the Protestants, Concerning the civil Magistrate,
And in the same page he saith, That they, viz, the Presbyterians, have so well begun at the Head, the civil Magistrate, that they trust they will imbrace the other members of the Roman Doctrine.
And in the same page he Says, That they, videlicet, the Presbyterians, have so well begun At the Head, the civil Magistrate, that they trust they will embrace the other members of the Roman Doctrine.
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What an Argument is this? may not any body by this Argument cry up themselves for Ministers, (as too many now adays do) and say, That Christ will be with them to the end of the Would?
What an Argument is this? may not any body by this Argument cry up themselves for Ministers, (as too many now adais do) and say, That christ will be with them to the end of thee Would?
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Did ever Christ's Ministers turn any out of their places, that they judged Christ's Ministers? or did ever any of them come to take the profits of another's living without his consent which was the incumbent,
Did ever Christ's Ministers turn any out of their places, that they judged Christ's Ministers? or did ever any of them come to take the profits of another's living without his consent which was the incumbent,
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And to the later part of your Counter-Query, about the purity of Ordination, I have already answered, by shewing you how shamefully you beg the Question, by taking it for granted, that your Presbyterian-Ordination is a purer Ordination then any other,
And to the later part of your Counter-query, about the purity of Ordination, I have already answered, by showing you how shamefully you beg the Question, by taking it for granted, that your Presbyterian-Ordination is a Purer Ordination then any other,
since they contradict one another? But you think to salve this sore by telling us, That they are not contradictious, since they both agree in an Ordination by Ministers,
since they contradict one Another? But you think to salve this soar by telling us, That they Are not contradictious, since they both agree in an Ordination by Ministers,
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and differ but in circumstances, &c. To this I answer, That they so differ, that where any hath been ordained by meer Presbyters, it hath (in most parts of the Christian World) been esteemed as a rullity:
and differ but in Circumstances, etc. To this I answer, That they so differ, that where any hath been ordained by mere Presbyters, it hath (in most parts of the Christian World) been esteemed as a rullity:
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and where Presbyterian Ordination hath been allowed, it hath been but in case of necessity, as appears by the English Bishops Confession to the Bishops of Scotland.
and where Presbyterian Ordination hath been allowed, it hath been but in case of necessity, as appears by the English Bishops Confessi to the Bishops of Scotland.
That it hath been adjudged a nullity, viz. Ordination by Presbyters, I prove, first, from the testimony of Hierom: What (saith he) doth a Bishop, that a Priest doth not, EXCEPT ORDINATION? Chrysostome saith the same:
That it hath been adjudged a nullity, viz. Ordination by Presbyters, I prove, First, from the testimony of Hieronymus: What (Says he) does a Bishop, that a Priest does not, EXCEPT ORDINATION? Chrysostom Says the same:
Again, Epiphanius reckons Ordination by Presbyters as an Arrian Heresie, Her. 75. in as much as Arrius held, That the Presbyters might ordain as well as Bishops, &c.
Again, Epiphanius reckons Ordination by Presbyters as an Arrian Heresy, Her. 75. in as much as Arius held, That the Presbyters might ordain as well as Bishops, etc.
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and therefore (saith he) they (meaning the Presbyters) cannot ordain nor beget Fathers and Doctors to the Church, &c. Augustin, Haeres. 53. blames the Arrians for that they had learned of one Arrius, to confound the Order of Priest and Bishop.
and Therefore (Says he) they (meaning the Presbyters) cannot ordain nor beget Father's and Doctors to the Church, etc. Augustin, Haeres. 53. blames the Arians for that they had learned of one Arius, to confound the Order of Priest and Bishop.
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so that whatever you say, there hath been a manifest contradiction; and that the difference was not circumstantial, as you vainly tell your Reader, but essential:
so that whatever you say, there hath been a manifest contradiction; and that the difference was not circumstantial, as you vainly tell your Reader, but essential:
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for not onely the Fathers, but Councels, judged Ordination by Presbyters a meer nullity, and that Episcopal Ordination was essential to the being of the Ministers Office.
for not only the Father's, but Counsels, judged Ordination by Presbyters a mere nullity, and that Episcopal Ordination was essential to the being of the Ministers Office.
if he preach according to the Independent-Ordination? You hereupon tell your old tale, viz That you cannot believe by what I have urged, any Ordination to be according to Rule,
if he preach according to the Independent-Ordination? You hereupon tell your old tale, videlicet That you cannot believe by what I have urged, any Ordination to be according to Rule,
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and that it is not that which Christ approves of, and for your slanders, in saying, That I appear for Independency as a cloak for Anabaptism, &c. Did you not blush when you writ this horrid untruth? Have I not, your own confession, appeared as publickly for that which you call Anabaptism? Do you not tell your Reader, That I did publickly appear at the Disputation held at Clements, without Temple-Bar, which was against Infant-Baptism? And have I not published my Opinion in print touching this Controversie? and yet you are so impudent as to tell your Reader, I appeared for Independency as a cloak, that my design might be the more plausible.
and that it is not that which christ approves of, and for your slanders, in saying, That I appear for Independency as a cloak for Anabaptism, etc. Did you not blush when you writ this horrid untruth? Have I not, your own Confessi, appeared as publicly for that which you call Anabaptism? Do you not tell your Reader, That I did publicly appear At the Disputation held At Clements, without Temple-Bar, which was against Infant baptism? And have I not published my Opinion in print touching this Controversy? and yet you Are so impudent as to tell your Reader, I appeared for Independency as a cloak, that my Design might be the more plausible.
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I ask in my twenty fourth Question, If that Ordination by Presbyters were the onely Ordination, where was an Ordination to be had in England thirty yeers ago?
I ask in my twenty fourth Question, If that Ordination by Presbyters were the only Ordination, where was an Ordination to be had in England thirty Years ago?
Your Query thereupon is nothing, but to enquire, Whether Presbyterian and Episcopal-Ordination might not both be lawful? and bid me prove by the next, That Bishops COULD NOT ordain then,
Your Query thereupon is nothing, but to inquire, Whither Presbyterian and Episcopal-Ordination might not both be lawful? and bid me prove by the next, That Bishops COULD NOT ordain then,
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My main design in proposing my Questions, was to put some one or other upon the proof of that which was so frequently asserted, viz. That the Ordination by Bishops or by Presbyters, is of God;
My main Design in proposing my Questions, was to put Some one or other upon the proof of that which was so frequently asserted, viz. That the Ordination by Bishops or by Presbyters, is of God;
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(meaning that which is practiced by the National Ministers.) And you come forth, and bid me prove, That the Bishops could not, and that the Presbyters cannot.
(meaning that which is practiced by the National Ministers.) And you come forth, and bid me prove, That the Bishops could not, and that the Presbyters cannot.
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Sir, is it not a sad thing, for you to tell your Reader in your Epistle to him, That this Doctrine of Ordination that is now contended for, is a foundation-Doctrine? And when you are demanded a proof of it, you shamefully shuffle,
Sir, is it not a sad thing, for you to tell your Reader in your Epistle to him, That this Doctrine of Ordination that is now contended for, is a foundation-Doctrine? And when you Are demanded a proof of it, you shamefully shuffle,
In my twenty fifth Query I demand, Why Mr. Willes did not tell his Hearers, which of those divers kindes of Ordination it is that God approves of? This was the sum of this Query.
In my twenty fifth Query I demand, Why Mr. Willes did not tell his Hearers, which of those diverse Kinds of Ordination it is that God approves of? This was the sum of this Query.
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To which you reply, and the sum of all you say, is, That if I have heard Mr. Willes in all his Sermons upon this Subject, I might had understood, that he was not rigid for Episcopacy, Presbytery, nor Independency;
To which you reply, and the sum of all you say, is, That if I have herd Mr. Willes in all his Sermons upon this Subject, I might had understood, that he was not rigid for Episcopacy, Presbytery, nor Independency;
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and also you must prove, That Christ ever did allow of Ordinations so palpably contradictious, (as these are, which will further appear in my following Answers) before there be any weight in what you or M. Willes hath said to this Question.
and also you must prove, That christ ever did allow of Ordinations so palpably contradictious, (as these Are, which will further appear in my following Answers) before there be any weight in what you or M. Wills hath said to this Question.
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However, if Mr. Willes doth well in being indifferent in this matter, how evilly hath the generality of our Presbyterians spent their time about such trifling circumstances,
However, if Mr. Wills does well in being indifferent in this matter, how evilly hath the generality of our Presbyterians spent their time about such trifling Circumstances,
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For the proof of this, I shall refer the Reader to Mr. Edwards his Gangraena, wherein he as much condemns ordained Ministers in the Independent way, as any other Sect whatever;
For the proof of this, I shall refer the Reader to Mr. Edwards his Gangraena, wherein he as much condemns ordained Ministers in the Independent Way, as any other Sect whatever;
and this was generally approved of by most of the Presbyterian Race, as appears by the several Letters sent to encourage Mr. Edwards, which he hath printed in his Book, which (he saith) he received from godly Presbyterian-Ministers.
and this was generally approved of by most of the Presbyterian Raze, as appears by the several Letters sent to encourage Mr. Edwards, which he hath printed in his Book, which (he Says) he received from godly Presbyterian-Ministers.
And you ask me, Whether I do not grant that a true succession makes true Ministers? and whether there is not a case of necessity when the succession in broke off? and whether such a necessity doth not make true Ministers?
And you ask me, Whither I do not grant that a true succession makes true Ministers? and whither there is not a case of necessity when the succession in broke off? and whither such a necessity does not make true Ministers?
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Would not this Argument justifie all Sects that schismed from Rome, as well as you? And did not all the Sects that departed from Rome into other novel and strange Opinions, worse then those they left, reason thus, That they either had some men which were in religious Orders, that separated with them,
Would not this Argument justify all Sects that schismed from Room, as well as you? And did not all the Sects that departed from Room into other novel and strange Opinions, Worse then those they left, reason thus, That they either had Some men which were in religious Order, that separated with them,
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But I therefore answer further, That though a man cannot be a true Minister but by one of these ways, it doth not therefore follow, (as I have already shewed in my Answer to Mr. Willes his Letter, at the beginning of this Book) that Mr. Willes is a Minister either of these wayes.
But I Therefore answer further, That though a man cannot be a true Minister but by one of these ways, it does not Therefore follow, (as I have already showed in my Answer to Mr. Willes his letter, At the beginning of this Book) that Mr. Willes is a Minister either of these ways.
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for I do deny, that they were true Ministers of Christ either way, or that they had either a lawful Succession or necessity to authorize them. But of this more anon.
for I do deny, that they were true Ministers of christ either Way, or that they had either a lawful Succession or necessity to authorise them. But of this more anon.
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To which I answer, What if that be granted? That the corruption of Receivers could not null an Ordinance, this doth not prove that corrupt Receivers of the Ordinance of Baptism can administer Baptism,
To which I answer, What if that be granted? That the corruption of Receivers could not null an Ordinance, this does not prove that corrupt Receivers of the Ordinance of Baptism can administer Baptism,
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so I say of your Ordination, That if you had justly ejected the Pope, he had after this no power to administer the Laws of Christ, no more then a Judge that is thrown out hath power to administer the Law of the Land. Thus your simile makes against you.
so I say of your Ordination, That if you had justly ejected the Pope, he had After this no power to administer the Laws of christ, no more then a Judge that is thrown out hath power to administer the Law of the Land. Thus your simile makes against you.
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And for your simile of Judas and a hypocrite, whence you would infer, That their heart-corruption doth not null God's Ordinances that are administred by them.
And for your simile of Judas and a hypocrite, whence you would infer, That their heart-corruption does not null God's Ordinances that Are administered by them.
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but what if their sins are known, and that they shall be rejected as Hereticks or as scandalous Persons, have they then any power to administer sacred things?
but what if their Sins Are known, and that they shall be rejected as Heretics or as scandalous Persons, have they then any power to administer sacred things?
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Now then, if the Church of England did reject Rome for her sin and Idolatry, it was then as lawful for me to go to any Fellow under a Hedge, and be ordained by him;
Now then, if the Church of England did reject Room for her since and Idolatry, it was then as lawful for me to go to any Fellow under a Hedge, and be ordained by him;
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and if the Church of Rome be not cut off from being a Church, then are you very wicked, in that you have not communion with them while they are of the Body;
and if the Church of Room be not Cut off from being a Church, then Are you very wicked, in that you have not communion with them while they Are of the Body;
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And further, If the Pope be rejected as that great Antichrist, it cannot be imagined, that he whom all the Protestants judge to be Christ's greatest Enemy should so far serve the great designs of Christ's Glory,
And further, If the Pope be rejected as that great Antichrist, it cannot be imagined, that he whom all the Protestants judge to be Christ's greatest Enemy should so Far serve the great designs of Christ's Glory,
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And further, the Protestant Calvinists in France, say, in the Confession of their Faith, Confes. Art. 21. That their Calling is extraordinary; and do confirm the same by their practice, in that they ordain anew, such Priests as revolt from Rome: but if the corruption of the Dispensers did not make their Ordination a nullity,
And further, the Protestant Calvinists in France, say, in the Confessi of their Faith, Confess Art. 21. That their Calling is extraordinary; and do confirm the same by their practice, in that they ordain anew, such Priests as revolt from Room: but if the corruption of the Dispensers did not make their Ordination a nullity,
And Mr. Fulk, that famous Opposer of Rome, tells them, That they are deceived highly if they think we esteem of their offices of Bishops, Priests and Deacons-better then Lay-Men.
And Mr. Fulk, that famous Opposer of Room, tells them, That they Are deceived highly if they think we esteem of their Offices of Bishops, Priests and Deacons-better then Lay-Men.
Your last Argument you bring to this Point is, That Christianity was profest, and therefore you ask me, If I will say there was not a company of true Believers all the time the Pope ruled here, &c. Whence you infer, If they were true believers, then there was a Church;
Your last Argument you bring to this Point is, That Christianity was professed, and Therefore you ask me, If I will say there was not a company of true Believers all the time the Pope ruled Here, etc. Whence you infer, If they were true believers, then there was a Church;
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and if a Church, then there must be a Ministery, because (you say) Christ promised, Ephes. 4.11, 12, 13. That the Saints should have such a Ministery till they come to be a perfect man, &c.
and if a Church, then there must be a Ministry, Because (you say) christ promised, Ephesians 4.11, 12, 13. That the Saints should have such a Ministry till they come to be a perfect man, etc.
as when they received their Ordination from her, &c. To this you answer, That she was as good when you left her, as she was when Ordination was received from her.
as when they received their Ordination from her, etc. To this you answer, That she was as good when you left her, as she was when Ordination was received from her.
and yet labour to prove, (if you could) That at this time in the middest of her Whoredoms, she had power to ordain Ministers to preach Christ? Pray tell me,
and yet labour to prove, (if you could) That At this time in the midst of her Whoredoms, she had power to ordain Ministers to preach christ? Pray tell me,
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Did ever our Lord Christ give the power of Ordination of Ministers to any but his Spouse or Church, whereof he is the Head? and whensoever she shall turn Whore,
Did ever our Lord christ give the power of Ordination of Ministers to any but his Spouse or Church, whereof he is the Head? and whensoever she shall turn Whore,
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and prostitute her self to other Lovers, hath she not lost this Power and Authority? is she not then like unsavoury Salt, fit for nothing? and yet by your Logick, she hath Authority from Christ to ordain Ministers to preach the Gospel.
and prostitute her self to other Lovers, hath she not lost this Power and authority? is she not then like unsavoury Salt, fit for nothing? and yet by your Logic, she hath authority from christ to ordain Ministers to preach the Gospel.
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This very saying of yours, viz. That your Mother, the Church of Rome, was a Whore at the time your Predecessors were ordained by her, confutes all your conceits of a lawful Succession.
This very saying of yours, viz. That your Mother, the Church of Rome, was a Whore At the time your Predecessors were ordained by her, confutes all your conceits of a lawful Succession.
I proceed to the twenty ninth Question, where I demand, If all the Ministers that were in England before Austin the Monk, were not brought into communion with the Roman-Church? And this was the sum of that Question.
I proceed to the twenty ninth Question, where I demand, If all the Ministers that were in England before Austin the Monk, were not brought into communion with the Roman-Church? And this was the sum of that Question.
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but in effect ask me the same thing over again, viz. Whether Gildas doth not report of a Ministery in England, before Austin the Monk? &c. and Whether there might not remain thousands that had not bowed their knee to Baal, and we not know of it?
but in Effect ask me the same thing over again, viz. Whither Gildas does not report of a Ministry in England, before Austin the Monk? etc. and Whither there might not remain thousands that had not bowed their knee to Baal, and we not know of it?
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then it is no great matter whether they did bow to Baal or no, as to the matter in question, seeing that if they had, by your Logick, it could not have hindred your lawful Succession, from them.
then it is no great matter whither they did bow to Baal or no, as to the matter in question, seeing that if they had, by your Logic, it could not have hindered your lawful Succession, from them.
To my thirtieth Question, which demands, Whether there was in England a Succession of a true Church, separated from Rome, all the time the Papal Power was exercised here? and how it did appear, That the Succession of the Ministery of England, was from this reformed, rather then the Papal Line?
To my thirtieth Question, which demands, Whither there was in England a Succession of a true Church, separated from Room, all the time the Papal Power was exercised Here? and how it did appear, That the Succession of the Ministry of England, was from this reformed, rather then the Papal Line?
You answer as before, That there might be a Succession, though we know not of it, &c. This being the same with the former, let the same Answer suffice;
You answer as before, That there might be a Succession, though we know not of it, etc. This being the same with the former, let the same Answer suffice;
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onely let me tell you, That it is very improbable, that a Church should remain in England in opposition to Rome, all the time the Papal Power was here, since Austin the Monk by force and arms was restless in subjecting the Britains in all parts to the See of Rome.
only let me tell you, That it is very improbable, that a Church should remain in England in opposition to Room, all the time the Papal Power was Here, since Austin the Monk by force and arms was restless in subjecting the Britains in all parts to the See of Room.
one is, That if a Thief have a Bible in his pocket, he is notwithstanding a Thief, Hence you would infer, That Rome may be possest with Gods Ordinances, though they are Thieves.
one is, That if a Thief have a bible in his pocket, he is notwithstanding a Thief, Hence you would infer, That Rome may be possessed with God's Ordinances, though they Are Thieves.
Hence you would innfer, That Ordination is Gods Ordinance, though it be in the hands of unholy persons, &c. To which I answer, That the Ordinances are God's, as the Censers were;
Hence you would innfer, That Ordination is God's Ordinance, though it be in the hands of unholy Persons, etc. To which I answer, That the Ordinances Are God's, as the Censers were;
see therefore how this similitude makes against you, and fully shews your vanity, that all you glory in, is but what you have received from a Korah, a Thief, a Harlot, which had no more right to administer it,
see Therefore how this similitude makes against you, and Fully shows your vanity, that all you glory in, is but what you have received from a Korah, a Thief, a Harlot, which had no more right to administer it,
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I demanded in the next place, How Rome being the Cage of every unclean thing, could administer so sacred an Ordinance, as ordaining Gospel-Ministers? &c. You say nothing in your Counter-Query, but what hath been said before;
I demanded in the next place, How Room being the Cage of every unclean thing, could administer so sacred an Ordinance, as ordaining Gospel ministers? etc. You say nothing in your Counter-query, but what hath been said before;
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onely you urge a fresh similitude that is nothing to your purpose, viz. That if my Accounts that be in my Book be just and right, they ought not to be nulled,
only you urge a fresh similitude that is nothing to your purpose, viz. That if my Accounts that be in my Book be just and right, they ought not to be nulled,
Hence you would infer, That Ordination is Gods Ordinance, though it hath been defaced by the Church of Romes uncleanness, &c. Which is not any part of my Question:
Hence you would infer, That Ordination is God's Ordinance, though it hath been defaced by the Church of Romes uncleanness, etc. Which is not any part of my Question:
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for though my Accounts are not to be disowned because my boy hath blotted them, yet my boy hath not power to dispose of them acording to his invention:
for though my Accounts Are not to be disowned Because my boy hath blotted them, yet my boy hath not power to dispose of them according to his invention:
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and you did separate because of her corruptions, why then was Mr. Brooks to be blamed in separating from the corruption of the Church of England? &c. In your many-headed Counter-Query, you say nothing that concerns me to answer;
and you did separate Because of her corruptions, why then was Mr. Brooks to be blamed in separating from the corruption of the Church of England? etc. In your manyheaded Counter-query, you say nothing that concerns me to answer;
and say, I yield up my weapons, by saying, IF Rome was a true Church. You demand then, To what end was all my other Questions? &c. I answer, That you had need go to School to learn to distinguish between an Hypothetical and a Categorical Proposition:
and say, I yield up my weapons, by saying, IF Room was a true Church. You demand then, To what end was all my other Questions? etc. I answer, That you had need go to School to Learn to distinguish between an Hypothetical and a Categorical Proposition:
for is it not one thing to say, The Church of Rome IS a true Church; and another thing to say, IF she be a true Church? Might you not as well have told your Reader, That David said, He COULD take the Wings of the Morning,
for is it not one thing to say, The Church of Room IS a true Church; and Another thing to say, IF she be a true Church? Might you not as well have told your Reader, That David said, He COULD take the Wings of the Morning,
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And for those other questions that you ask me concerning Mr. Brooks his separation, in p. 41, 42. I shall refer you to him, who very likely can give you a better Answer then you have given to my Queries.
And for those other questions that you ask me Concerning Mr. Brooks his separation, in p. 41, 42. I shall refer you to him, who very likely can give you a better Answer then you have given to my Queries.
I demand in the next place, Why the Protestant Shepherds shear the Papists, since they judge them no Sheep of their fold? This is the sum of the Question.
I demand in the next place, Why the Protestant Shepherd's shear the Papists, since they judge them no Sheep of their fold? This is the sum of the Question.
And thereupon you demand, Whether it be not reason then, that they should pay their tythes? &c. To this I answer, That there is little reason why any body should pay;
And thereupon you demand, Whither it be not reason then, that they should pay their Tithes? etc. To this I answer, That there is little reason why any body should pay;
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Should not you have done well to have proved this, before you went further? viz. That Christ would have men pay tythes to a Minister when they are thrust out of their stock,
Should not you have done well to have proved this, before you went further? viz. That christ would have men pay Tithes to a Minister when they Are thrust out of their stock,
I demand in the next place, Whether that the reason why you do exclude Papists, which is because they do not reform, be not the reason why Mr. Brooks excludes scandalous persons, viz. because they do not reform? &c.
I demand in the next place, Whither that the reason why you do exclude Papists, which is Because they do not reform, be not the reason why Mr. Brooks excludes scandalous Persons, viz. Because they do not reform? etc.
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I query, since Ordination from Rome was thrown off upon a politick account, what ground the Ministers of the Nation have to plead a necessity to preach without Ordination.
I query, since Ordination from Room was thrown off upon a politic account, what ground the Ministers of the nation have to plead a necessity to preach without Ordination.
Secondly, If they had separated from the Church of Rome, because of her uncleanness, then there was no need for them to plead necessity for their preaching without Ordination,
Secondly, If they had separated from the Church of Rome, Because of her uncleanness, then there was no need for them to plead necessity for their preaching without Ordination,
And thirdly, if Necessity may be a Warrant to them at that time, it was as good a Warrant to other Sects that revolted from Rome, as well as it was for those you call our first Reformers.
And Thirdly, if Necessity may be a Warrant to them At that time, it was as good a Warrant to other Sects that revolted from Room, as well as it was for those you call our First Reformers.
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So that then, if any Arrians or Socinians, &c. should have Rent from Rome, and gathered into a Congregation, they might have pleaded that they had a lawful Ministery, either by Succession, in that some of them had been Priests before they revolted;
So that then, if any Arians or socinians, etc. should have Rend from Room, and gathered into a Congregation, they might have pleaded that they had a lawful Ministry, either by Succession, in that Some of them had been Priests before they revolted;
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but till then, let me tell him, and you too, That any Sect that will take it for granted, that they have Ministers among them, may as well justifie their Ministers Authority,
but till then, let me tell him, and you too, That any Sect that will take it for granted, that they have Ministers among them, may as well justify their Ministers authority,
only you demand, Whether there may not be a lawful succession from those that first took upon them this Office by Necessity? and whether any in an ordinary lawful way can be in office,
only you demand, Whither there may not be a lawful succession from those that First took upon them this Office by Necessity? and whither any in an ordinary lawful Way can be in office,
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but those that have it from that succession? &c. To this I answer, That if what you here suppose be true, then why did not our first Reformers go to the Ministers of other reformed Churches for Ordination, rather then take it from Mr. Scory, and that Faction? since there was divers reformed Churches where they might have been ordained without receiving it from Rome, or without putting themselves into the Office upon a pretended necessity.
but those that have it from that succession? etc. To this I answer, That if what you Here suppose be true, then why did not our First Reformers go to the Ministers of other reformed Churches for Ordination, rather then take it from Mr. Scory, and that Faction? since there was diverse reformed Churches where they might have been ordained without receiving it from Room, or without putting themselves into the Office upon a pretended necessity.
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then our first Reformers cannot plead Not Guilty, since (as I have said) there was no necessity for them to own an Ordination from Rome, because they might have have had it in more purity from those you call the reformed Churches, which had separated from the Church of Rome before England.
then our First Reformers cannot plead Not Guilty, since (as I have said) there was no necessity for them to own an Ordination from Room, Because they might have have had it in more purity from those you call the reformed Churches, which had separated from the Church of Room before England.
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or if they had been true reformed Churches, either by succession or necessity, why then did not our first Reformers go to some of these to be ordained? and since they did not, doth it not manifestly appear, that they were not true Ministers by succession,
or if they had been true reformed Churches, either by succession or necessity, why then did not our First Reformers go to Some of these to be ordained? and since they did not, does it not manifestly appear, that they were not true Ministers by succession,
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because they received Ordination from Rome, whom you call a Harlot, when they might have had it from the Ministers of the reformed Churches then in being? and because there was reformed Churches in being, where they might have been ordained, they had no reason to plead to any necessity then of preaching without Ordination, any more then Mr. Brooks and others have, whom Mr. Willes and you condemn.
Because they received Ordination from Room, whom you call a Harlot, when they might have had it from the Ministers of the reformed Churches then in being? and Because there was reformed Churches in being, where they might have been ordained, they had no reason to plead to any necessity then of preaching without Ordination, any more then Mr. Brooks and Others have, whom Mr. Willes and you condemn.
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I come now to the fortieth Question that I propounded, which demands what Ground Mr. Willes had to baptize the children of wicked parents? &c. And to this you say nothing but what I have answered already;
I come now to the fortieth Question that I propounded, which demands what Ground Mr. Willes had to baptise the children of wicked Parents? etc. And to this you say nothing but what I have answered already;
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Which when you have proved it, viz. That infants, while they are in infancy, have an immediate right to be members of a Church in the new Testament, I shall confess they may be baptized;
Which when you have proved it, viz. That Infants, while they Are in infancy, have an immediate right to be members of a Church in the new Testament, I shall confess they may be baptised;
In the next place I demand, Whether to baptize the children of wicked parents, be not contrary to the Opinion of the reformed Churches? You reply, That in the sense M. Willes doth assert the baptizing of the children of wicked parents, it is lawful.
In the next place I demand, Whither to baptise the children of wicked Parents, be not contrary to the Opinion of the reformed Churches? You reply, That in the sense M. Wills does assert the baptizing of the children of wicked Parents, it is lawful.
To which I answer, That I have replied to Mr. Willes his sense about the baptizing the children of wicked parents, in my Answer to his Letter, at the beginning of this Book.
To which I answer, That I have replied to Mr. Willes his sense about the baptizing the children of wicked Parents, in my Answer to his letter, At the beginning of this Book.
before you end this question, you say, That if the Ministery of England be Antichristian, then it will follow, that those that they have baptized are unlawfully baptized, &c. How shamefully do you contradict your self? did you not say before, That the corruptions of the dispensers of Ordinances could not make the Ordinances a nullity,
before you end this question, you say, That if the Ministry of England be Antichristian, then it will follow, that those that they have baptised Are unlawfully baptised, etc. How shamefully do you contradict your self? did you not say before, That the corruptions of the dispensers of Ordinances could not make the Ordinances a nullity,
though the Administrator was Antichristian? And do you not now in effect say, That baptism is a nullity, if the Administrator be Antichristian? for you say, If the National Ministery be Antichristian, ( as Mr. Brooks saith ) it will follow, that it is unlawful.
though the Administrator was Antichristian? And do you not now in Effect say, That Baptism is a nullity, if the Administrator be Antichristian? for you say, If the National Ministry be Antichristian, (as Mr. Brooks Says) it will follow, that it is unlawful.
Do you not now justifie all that I have said, viz. If the first Reformers were ordained by Antichristian Ministers, that then it followeth, that their Ordination is a nullity;
Do you not now justify all that I have said, viz. If the First Reformers were ordained by Antichristian Ministers, that then it follows, that their Ordination is a nullity;
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and that till they are ordained again, they all of them preach without Ordination from Christ? Thus the Reader may see, that rather then you would want an arrow to shoot at M. Brooks, you would borrow one out of my quiver;
and that till they Are ordained again, they all of them preach without Ordination from christ? Thus the Reader may see, that rather then you would want an arrow to shoot At M. Brooks, you would borrow one out of my quiver;
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and you do as good as confess as much, when you conclude, and say, That your heart trembleth, and you heartily wish, that you could not plead so strongly, to sadden honest hearts, to please me, and such as I am.
and you do as good as confess as much, when you conclude, and say, That your heart Trembleth, and you heartily wish, that you could not plead so strongly, to sadden honest hearts, to please me, and such as I am.
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So that it seems, you are now forced to yield to your own grief and others of your friends, which you call honest hearts, &c. it seems then, the truth is too strong for you. But to proceed.
So that it seems, you Are now forced to yield to your own grief and Others of your Friends, which you call honest hearts, etc. it seems then, the truth is too strong for you. But to proceed.
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And to the Counter-queries you propound upon my 46 question, touching Mr. Willes his Discourse with me in private, I have already answered in my Reply to M. Willes his Letter.
And to the Counter-queries you propound upon my 46 question, touching Mr. Willes his Discourse with me in private, I have already answered in my Reply to M. Wills his letter.
for men of corrupt mindes are against us, witness the rude behavior of those that threatned to throw me over the Gallery for asking M. Willes a question;
for men of corrupt minds Are against us, witness the rude behaviour of those that threatened to throw me over the Gallery for asking M. Wills a question;
In the second place, you tell your Reader, That those that have designs against the truth, have usually some plausible pretence to carry them on, &c. To this I answer, That you are none of those that have plausible designs against the truth;
In the second place, you tell your Reader, That those that have designs against the truth, have usually Some plausible pretence to carry them on, etc. To this I answer, That you Are none of those that have plausible designs against the truth;
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though you have a great many, you have scarce one that is plausible: for if you had, you would never have discovered to the world so much contradiction & folly, as you have done in your Book;
though you have a great many, you have scarce one that is plausible: for if you had, you would never have discovered to the world so much contradiction & folly, as you have done in your Book;
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Would you have had your designs plausible, you should never have discovered the Pedegree of your Clergy, by calling their Progenitors Thieves and Harlots: sure this will not be plausible to any that shall hear it,
Would you have had your designs plausible, you should never have discovered the Pedigree of your Clergy, by calling their Progenitors Thieves and Harlots: sure this will not be plausible to any that shall hear it,
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The last thing you inform your Reader, is, That this Book is your first, &c. This you use as an argument why he should excuse your mistakes, &c. and truely, Sir, you had need of a pardon:
The last thing you inform your Reader, is, That this Book is your First, etc. This you use as an argument why he should excuse your mistakes, etc. and truly, Sir, you had need of a pardon:
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