Separation yet no schisme, or, Non-conformists no schismaticks being a full and sober vindication of the non-conformists from the charge and imputation of schisme, in answer to a sermon lately preached before the Lord Mayor by J.S.
THE design of that Sermon, one would be apt to think, was to promote Peace among the Protestant professors in England; whose differences are Universally acknowledged, to be about matters of no fundamental concernment,
THE Design of that Sermon, one would be apt to think, was to promote Peace among the Protestant professors in England; whose differences Are Universally acknowledged, to be about matters of no fundamental concernment,
And doubtlesse if he had prosecuted this his design, by the same means and methods as the Apostle there doth, viz. not so much by setting himself to resolve their controversies,
And doubtless if he had prosecuted this his Design, by the same means and methods as the Apostle there does, viz. not so much by setting himself to resolve their controversies,
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as to silence their disputes, and to allay their bitternesses to each other, by shewing that they had nothing to do to judge or censure their brethren,
as to silence their disputes, and to allay their Bitternesses to each other, by showing that they had nothing to do to judge or censure their brothers,
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and rather for Peace sake, to forbear doing that which they might lawfully do, than by any undue use of their liberty to cast a stumbling block before the weak uninstructed dissenters: This he confesseth pag. 1.2. was the way the Apostle took, and certainly if he had followed so great an example, he had (like a man of Wisdom as well as of Peace) prosecuted an excellent end by most excellent means:
and rather for Peace sake, to forbear doing that which they might lawfully do, than by any undue use of their liberty to cast a stumbling block before the weak uninstructed dissenters: This he Confesses page. 1.2. was the Way the Apostle took, and Certainly if he had followed so great an Exampl, he had (like a man of Wisdom as well as of Peace) prosecuted an excellent end by most excellent means:
obstinately maintained pag. 7. And instead of perswading them to forbear doing those things (which some think) they may lawfully do, (as the making use of prescribed Prayers and Ceremonies) least a stumbling block should be cast before their weak brethren, he falls pag. 5. into Encomiums of the excellency of the present Church Government, the easiness of the Terms of Communion, the Lawfulness of the use of the publick Service,
obstinately maintained page. 7. And instead of persuading them to forbear doing those things (which Some think) they may lawfully do, (as the making use of prescribed Prayers and Ceremonies) lest a stumbling block should be cast before their weak brothers, he falls page. 5. into Encomiums of the excellency of the present Church Government, the easiness of the Terms of Communion, the Lawfulness of the use of the public Service,
and Antiquity of the Ceremonies, and then doth conclude that Sober men should be ashamed to call the penalties which the Laws inflict on those that separate from the Church in these things, Persecutions.
and Antiquity of the Ceremonies, and then does conclude that Sobrium men should be ashamed to call the penalties which the Laws inflict on those that separate from the Church in these things, Persecutions.
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The plain English of all this is, that the great Apostle and this Person are of two minds concerning these things which make for Peace, the Apostle is for not judging the Lords Servants,
The plain English of all this is, that the great Apostle and this Person Are of two minds Concerning these things which make for Peace, the Apostle is for not judging the lords Servants,
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But certainly, as he herein leaves the Apostle, so the Apostle leaves him, and in this deserted Condition as we find him I hope it will be no presumption to call his reasonings about this matter to an account.
But Certainly, as he herein leaves the Apostle, so the Apostle leaves him, and in this deserted Condition as we find him I hope it will be no presumption to call his reasonings about this matter to an account.
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The strength of what he hath said to justifie his charge of Schisme against this people he hath comprised in five Propositions, which we shall examine in order.
The strength of what he hath said to justify his charge of Schism against this people he hath comprised in five Propositions, which we shall examine in order.
and certainly if it be to be understood according to the proper meaning of the words and phrases therein contained, (as it ought to be;) I shall not scruple to call the Truth thereof into Question, For.
and Certainly if it be to be understood according to the proper meaning of the words and phrases therein contained, (as it ought to be;) I shall not scruple to call the Truth thereof into Question, For.
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and consequently if he be a Christian he must necessarily be a Member of Christs Church, in the sence of [ Church ] in the Proposition which is such as therewith an external Communion may be held.
and consequently if he be a Christian he must necessarily be a Member of Christ Church, in the sense of [ Church ] in the Proposition which is such as therewith an external Communion may be held.
If this be your meaning, as I suppose it is, because in your explication of this Proposition you seem to hold, that Christ died primarily for his Church,
If this be your meaning, as I suppose it is, Because in your explication of this Proposition you seem to hold, that christ died primarily for his Church,
and therefore neither in this sence can the Proposition be true, for every Christian upon the account of his internal Membership is not therefore a Member of a visible Church,
and Therefore neither in this sense can the Proposition be true, for every Christian upon the account of his internal Membership is not Therefore a Member of a visible Church,
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for there may be 7000 such invisible Members in Israel, when there was no appearance of a visible Church as to them, where any external Communion was held;
for there may be 7000 such invisible Members in Israel, when there was no appearance of a visible Church as to them, where any external Communion was held;
and yet this is that the Proposition drives at, that every Christian as such, is a Member of such a Church with which external Communion may be held, which is in this sence apparently false.
and yet this is that the Proposition drives At, that every Christian as such, is a Member of such a Church with which external Communion may be held, which is in this sense apparently false.
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Yet again all these internal Members of God's Family, may be considered as outwardly professing their Faith and associateing together as they can, for the Worship of God:
Yet again all these internal Members of God's Family, may be considered as outwardly professing their Faith and associateing together as they can, for the Worship of God:
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among whom creep in many Hypocrites, by professing the same Faith and joyning in the same Worship with them, which together make up the Catholick Visible Church, in this sence I grant that every professing Christian may be reckoned as a Member of the Catholick visible Church.
among whom creep in many Hypocrites, by professing the same Faith and joining in the same Worship with them, which together make up the Catholic Visible Church, in this sense I grant that every professing Christian may be reckoned as a Member of the Catholic visible Church.
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or in case they be scattered by extream Persecution, or in case of an unjust excommunication, Christians may be Christians without being members of Christs visible Church, which indeed are concessions that overturn the Truth of his Proposition;
or in case they be scattered by extreme Persecution, or in case of an unjust excommunication, Christians may be Christians without being members of Christ visible Church, which indeed Are concessions that overturn the Truth of his Proposition;
By Church (as may be gathered out of his explication of this Proposition) he understands a Society of particular Persons, gathered out of mankind and formed into a Body Politick of which Christ is the Head. This I confesse is somewhat,
By Church (as may be gathered out of his explication of this Proposition) he understands a Society of particular Persons, gathered out of mankind and formed into a Body Politic of which christ is the Head. This I confess is somewhat,
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But methinks he should not take [ Church ] in this sence, because first, he speaks of a Church wherewith every Christian is bound to seek external Communion,
But methinks he should not take [ Church ] in this sense, Because First, he speaks of a Church wherewith every Christian is bound to seek external Communion,
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but no external Communion can be had with a Church considered as invisible. And secondly, because he speaks of Communion with such a Church where Communion is hazardous,
but no external Communion can be had with a Church considered as invisible. And secondly, Because he speaks of Communion with such a Church where Communion is hazardous,
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as is implyed by his supposition (if it can be had,) now certainly there is no hazard in obtaining an internal Communion with Christ the Head and all true Believers,
as is employed by his supposition (if it can be had,) now Certainly there is no hazard in obtaining an internal Communion with christ the Head and all true Believers,
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But if he by Church means the Catholick visible Church consisting of all individual professors of the Christian Doctrine thoroughout the world, united to Christ their Head, which is most likely to be his meaning,
But if he by Church means the Catholic visible Church consisting of all Individu professors of the Christian Doctrine throughout the world, united to christ their Head, which is most likely to be his meaning,
3. That Christ the invisible Head in Heaven, being joyned to his invisible Professors on Earth make up a Body Politick (whether he will call this Body Politick visible or invisible I know not,
3. That christ the invisible Head in Heaven, being joined to his invisible Professors on Earth make up a Body Politic (whither he will call this Body Politic visible or invisible I know not,
but sure I am, the Head thereof which is the more principal part in invisible.) But this he saith, that it is the Duty of every particular Christian to joyn with this Church in external Communion if it may be had.
but sure I am, the Head thereof which is the more principal part in invisible.) But this he Says, that it is the Duty of every particular Christian to join with this Church in external Communion if it may be had.
First, Because it is very improper to say that any one is obliged to hold an external Communion with a Politick body, where no Head is owned but what is invisible;
First, Because it is very improper to say that any one is obliged to hold an external Communion with a Politic body, where no Head is owned but what is invisible;
for since the principal and essential Member of a body Politick is the Head, and that no external Communion can be had therewith as invisible, it cannot be truely said that we may have,
for since the principal and essential Member of a body Politic is the Head, and that no external Communion can be had therewith as invisible, it cannot be truly said that we may have,
Secondly, I say no such external Communion can be had, because of the vast numbers of professing Christians scattered at such great distances upon the face of the Earth, that no such Communion can possibly be obtained,
Secondly, I say no such external Communion can be had, Because of the vast numbers of professing Christians scattered At such great distances upon the face of the Earth, that no such Communion can possibly be obtained,
Do you say, but all Christians are united under one Head the Lord Christ, so (say I) are all mankind united under one God who is their Head and Governour.
Do you say, but all Christians Are united under one Head the Lord christ, so (say I) Are all mankind united under one God who is their Head and Governor.
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Do (you say) all Christians Communicate in some external priviledges, so (say I) do all mankind, they are enlightned by the same Sun, breath in the same air, feed on the Fruits of the same Earth.
Do (you say) all Christians Communicate in Some external privileges, so (say I) do all mankind, they Are enlightened by the same Sun, breath in the same air, feed on the Fruits of the same Earth.
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I answer, but if all mankind had the very same Laws, yet if the publication and execution of those Laws were in different Kings hands that had jurisdiction over each other, this were not enough to speak them all of one external Politick Communion;
I answer, but if all mankind had the very same Laws, yet if the publication and execution of those Laws were in different Kings hands that had jurisdiction over each other, this were not enough to speak them all of one external Politic Communion;
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no more do the same Laws amongst Christians (since the publication and execution thereof, is in the hands of different visible Church Governours, that have no jurisdiction over each other) speak any external Politick Communion among all Christians.
no more do the same Laws among Christians (since the publication and execution thereof, is in the hands of different visible Church Governors, that have no jurisdiction over each other) speak any external Politic Communion among all Christians.
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For the clearing of this (he saith) you may be pleased to consider that the primary design and intention of our Saviour in his undertaking for us, was, not to save particular Persons without respect to a Society,
For the clearing of this (he Says) you may be pleased to Consider that the primary Design and intention of our Saviour in his undertaking for us, was, not to save particular Persons without respect to a Society,
what can be more absurd? did not Christ, think you, as primarily design all those parts of his Church that in their past Generations did once exist here on Earth,
what can be more absurd? did not christ, think you, as primarily Design all those parts of his Church that in their past Generations did once exist Here on Earth,
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and doth not he alike design to save that part that is yet to be born? Again, you herein say, that Christ primarily designed to save the Catholick visible Church, which is evidently false;
and does not he alike Design to save that part that is yet to be born? Again, you herein say, that christ primarily designed to save the Catholic visible Church, which is evidently false;
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for Christ never designed to save his visible Catholick Church, much lesse considered as visible, and therefore cannot be said Primarily to design Their Salvation:
for christ never designed to save his visible Catholic Church, much less considered as visible, and Therefore cannot be said Primarily to Design Their Salvation:
Yet again if the quite contrary be true, viz. That Christ first designed the Salvation of particular Christians and but in a secondary sence the Church that is made up of them,
Yet again if the quite contrary be true, viz. That christ First designed the Salvation of particular Christians and but in a secondary sense the Church that is made up of them,
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First, Because all individual sincere Christians have all qualifications that are absolutely necessary to Salvation, antecedently to a visible Church state,
First, Because all Individu sincere Christians have all qualifications that Are absolutely necessary to Salvation, antecedently to a visible Church state,
Church State by Baptism, it was but to Seal that Salvation to them, and to promote and carry on that Salvation that was antecedently secured to them by the Covenant, upon their Repentance and Faith in the Lord Jesus:
Church State by Baptism, it was but to Seal that Salvation to them, and to promote and carry on that Salvation that was antecedently secured to them by the Covenant, upon their Repentance and Faith in the Lord jesus:
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but only as true Believers, for the fundamental saving Doctrine of the Gospel doth not run thus, he that is a Member of the visible Church shall be saved, but he that Believeth shall be saved,
but only as true Believers, for the fundamental Saving Doctrine of the Gospel does not run thus, he that is a Member of the visible Church shall be saved, but he that Believeth shall be saved,
If it be objected, But doth not the Apostle Peter, Preach not only Repentance, but likewise Baptism as necessary to Remission of sins; and consequently to Salvation:
If it be objected, But does not the Apostle Peter, Preach not only Repentance, but likewise Baptism as necessary to Remission of Sins; and consequently to Salvation:
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when he says Repent and be Baptized every one of you, for the Remission of sins? And is not Baptisme an Ordinance of admission into a visible Church State? I answ.
when he Says repent and be Baptised every one of you, for the Remission of Sins? And is not Baptism an Ordinance of admission into a visible Church State? I Answer.
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they are both indeed commanded, but not as equally necessary, for Repentance gives the fundamental title to remission, Baptisme doth only give the Seal;
they Are both indeed commanded, but not as equally necessary, for Repentance gives the fundamental title to remission, Baptism does only give the Seal;
the former is so necessary that without it no remission can be obtained: the other is but for the more comfortable assurance of that priviledge to the penitent;
the former is so necessary that without it no remission can be obtained: the other is but for the more comfortable assurance of that privilege to the penitent;
but not absolutely necessary as the other: and this our Saviour most clearly intimates when he saith, Mark 16.16. He that Believeth and is Baptized, shall be saved;
but not absolutely necessary as the other: and this our Saviour most clearly intimates when he Says, Mark 16.16. He that Believeth and is Baptised, shall be saved;
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and likewise the continuance of Life as united together in one body, it will certainly follows that if any Member of the Church be separated from the Church it must necessarily perish,
and likewise the Continuance of Life as united together in one body, it will Certainly follows that if any Member of the Church be separated from the Church it must necessarily perish,
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and but secondarily particular Members as he asserts: which I thus prove. That respect which individual men have to civil Society, as Kingdomes or Republicks;
and but secondarily particular Members as he asserts: which I thus prove. That respect which Individu men have to civil Society, as Kingdoms or Republics;
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that respect have particular Christians to the visible Church of Christ, according to his own notion of a Church which he considers as a body Politick.
that respect have particular Christians to the visible Church of christ, according to his own notion of a Church which he considers as a body Politic.
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Now I say, God in making the World, did not primarily design Kingdomes and Commonwealths, but he primarily designed the giving of particular men their existences:
Now I say, God in making the World, did not primarily Design Kingdoms and Commonwealths, but he primarily designed the giving of particular men their existences:
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Therefore so did Christ, he first designed the putting of particular men into a State of Salvation by giving to them Faith and Repentance and Remission of sins,
Therefore so did christ, he First designed the putting of particular men into a State of Salvation by giving to them Faith and Repentance and Remission of Sins,
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and then designed, as a consequent thereof, to collect them into a Society or Societies, under Governours of his appointment, to be ruled by Laws of his own Ordination,
and then designed, as a consequent thereof, to collect them into a Society or Societies, under Governors of his appointment, to be ruled by Laws of his own Ordination,
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so that this Society or Societies, of Church or Churches, with the Laws and Ordinances thereto belonging, are but for the sakes and subordinated to the welfare of particular Christians,
so that this Society or Societies, of Church or Churches, with the Laws and Ordinances thereto belonging, Are but for the sakes and subordinated to the welfare of particular Christians,
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and a Title to Salvation, before that meer order that ought to be amongst them for their security and comfort, which is acquired by associations or Church Government.
and a Title to Salvation, before that mere order that ought to be among them for their security and Comfort, which is acquired by associations or Church Government.
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so that here it is evident that the uniting of his Men and keeping them under Discipline, is subordinately intended for the preservation of particulars.
so that Here it is evident that the uniting of his Men and keeping them under Discipline, is subordinately intended for the preservation of particulars.
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Secondly, he intends the Salvation of particular sinners, by Regenerating and pardoning of them: And lastly, he intends the Collection of them into a body or bodies under Discipline,
Secondly, he intends the Salvation of particular Sinners, by Regenerating and pardoning of them: And lastly, he intends the Collection of them into a body or bodies under Discipline,
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The conclusion that ariseth hence is this, that this Author is much mistaken when he saith, that Christ did primarily intend the Salvation of his Church,
The conclusion that arises hence is this, that this Author is much mistaken when he Says, that christ did primarily intend the Salvation of his Church,
This (saith he) is no more than what is the sence and Language of the Holy Scriptures, wherein, whatever Christ is said to have done and suffered for mankind, he is said to have done for them, not as scattered individuals,
This (Says he) is no more than what is the sense and Language of the Holy Scriptures, wherein, whatever christ is said to have done and suffered for mankind, he is said to have done for them, not as scattered individuals,
Yet further, certainly the Author doth run himself and his Reader into much confusion for want of a Regular stating of the several Aspects, which Christs sufferings have to mankind,
Yet further, Certainly the Author does run himself and his Reader into much confusion for want of a Regular stating of the several Aspects, which Christ sufferings have to mankind,
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suffering was with Relation to men as such, Rom. 5.8. God commendeth his Love towards us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. So Col. 1.21. And you that were sometime alienated and Enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the Body of his Flesh through Death.
suffering was with Relation to men as such, Rom. 5.8. God commends his Love towards us, in that while we were yet Sinners christ died for us. So Col. 1.21. And you that were sometime alienated and Enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the Body of his Flesh through Death.
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for I can, as any man else may easily, consider a man as a Believer, as a Penitent, as in favour with God, without considering him under any Politick Relations:
for I can, as any man Else may Easily, Consider a man as a Believer, as a Penitent, as in favour with God, without considering him under any Politic Relations:
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and this is a priviledge peculiar only to that Church of Christ, which every Member is considered as really and sincerely united to Christ; by a true Faith:
and this is a privilege peculiar only to that Church of christ, which every Member is considered as really and sincerely united to christ; by a true Faith:
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which properly belongs to Christians co-united together in an external profession of Faith, in associating for publick worship and submitting to Christs Discipline.
which properly belongs to Christians co-united together in an external profession of Faith, in associating for public worship and submitting to Christ Discipline.
are such that belong to Christians as individuals, such as Faith and Repentance, Remission of sins, and such like, which they have by virtue of Union with Christ, without any respect to any Politick Union with one another:
Are such that belong to Christians as individuals, such as Faith and Repentance, Remission of Sins, and such like, which they have by virtue of union with christ, without any respect to any Politic union with one Another:
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as for those benefits which are of a Politick or relative consideration, they are lesse principal and not of that necessity to Salvation, such are the Love of all Saints and their mutual Prayers for each other.
as for those benefits which Are of a Politic or relative consideration, they Are less principal and not of that necessity to Salvation, such Are the Love of all Saints and their mutual Prayers for each other.
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Now I conceive the former true, because it is every where affirmed in Scripture, that he that believes, he that repents, he that is regenerate, he that is pardoned, shall be saved.
Now I conceive the former true, Because it is every where affirmed in Scripture, that he that believes, he that repents, he that is regenerate, he that is pardoned, shall be saved.
Because the intents of Christs dying must be measured according to the Nature of things, so that what is more excellent must be intended before that which is lesse excellent,
Because the intents of Christ dying must be measured according to the Nature of things, so that what is more excellent must be intended before that which is less excellent,
now mens being particularly united to Christ by Faith, their having their Natures changed, and their sins pardoned, are more excellent than their Union and Communion with each other in external Ordinances, that are but inferior Ministeries subservient to their Faith,
now men's being particularly united to christ by Faith, their having their Nature's changed, and their Sins pardoned, Are more excellent than their union and Communion with each other in external Ordinances, that Are but inferior Ministeries subservient to their Faith,
for indeed Faith and Repentance speak no relation immediately to any but God and Christ, that of Church Membership comes in as a consequent thereof, to which priviledge Faith gives the Title.
for indeed Faith and Repentance speak no Relation immediately to any but God and christ, that of Church Membership comes in as a consequent thereof, to which privilege Faith gives the Title.
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Therefore Christ did not dye to save his Church quatenus a Society, united for worship, &c. but quatenus its Members are true Believers and no further,
Therefore christ did not die to save his Church quatenus a Society, united for worship, etc. but quatenus its Members Are true Believers and no further,
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Then certainly, the first thing that the Gospel should presse upon sinners is, that they should first unite themselves to the Church, which to say it doth is both false and absurd:
Then Certainly, the First thing that the Gospel should press upon Sinners is, that they should First unite themselves to the Church, which to say it does is both false and absurd:
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than a Hog or Horse are capable of being Citizens of London. He that considers what hath been said, may soon see what little help those Scriptures he mentions afford his notion,
than a Hog or Horse Are capable of being Citizens of London. He that considers what hath been said, may soon see what little help those Scriptures he mentions afford his notion,
and upon what slender grounds he builds that confident conclusion of his, viz. That by virtue of that relation to the Church it is that a Christian hath any relation to Christ.
and upon what slender grounds he builds that confident conclusion of his, viz. That by virtue of that Relation to the Church it is that a Christian hath any Relation to christ.
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He addes, Agreeable to this notion, it is (saith he) very plain, that Baptism which is by all acknowledged to be the Ceremony of initiating us into Christianity, is in Scripture declared to be the Rite, whereby we are entred and admitted into the Church, this St. Paul expresly tells us, That we are all Baptized into one Body, again that Christ hath sanctified, i. e.
He adds, Agreeable to this notion, it is (Says he) very plain, that Baptism which is by all acknowledged to be the Ceremony of initiating us into Christianity, is in Scripture declared to be the Rite, whereby we Are entered and admitted into the Church, this Saint Paul expressly tells us, That we Are all Baptised into one Body, again that christ hath sanctified, i. e.
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I wonder that the Author should say that these Scriptures are agreeable to his notion, that Christ intends the Salvation of no particular Christians but considered as members of a Church.
I wonder that the Author should say that these Scriptures Are agreeable to his notion, that christ intends the Salvation of no particular Christians but considered as members of a Church.
and but secondarily for the individual members thereof, or that we have primarily a relation to the Church and but secondarily to Christ, i.e. by virtue of the former relation.
and but secondarily for the Individu members thereof, or that we have primarily a Relation to the Church and but secondarily to christ, i.e. by virtue of the former Relation.
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For First, what is there in these words, we are baptized into one body, to signifie a priority of our relation to the Church, any more than in those Rom. 6.3.
For First, what is there in these words, we Are baptised into one body, to signify a priority of our Relation to the Church, any more than in those Rom. 6.3.
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and give us some evident reason why we must needs understand, that thereby is meant we are baptized into the Church primarily, and into Christ secondarily:
and give us Some evident reason why we must needs understand, that thereby is meant we Are baptised into the Church primarily, and into christ secondarily:
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Whoever said that King Charles the 2d was only related to Charles the First, as he is related to his brother James Duke of York and the rest of the Royal Family? certainly as he is the Elder Brother his relation to his Father was first both in nature and time to any relation he stood in to his younger brethren.
Whoever said that King Charles the 2d was only related to Charles the First, as he is related to his brother James Duke of York and the rest of the Royal Family? Certainly as he is the Elder Brother his Relation to his Father was First both in nature and time to any Relation he stood in to his younger brothers.
Or whoever said that the individuals of a Kingdome cannot be considered in relation to their King and Soveraign antecedently to their being considered as fellow subjects? when certainly the relation of fellow subjects doth arise upon the supposed relation of those individuall subjects to their soveraign;
Or whoever said that the individuals of a Kingdom cannot be considered in Relation to their King and Sovereign antecedently to their being considered as fellow subject's? when Certainly the Relation of fellow subject's does arise upon the supposed Relation of those Individu subject's to their sovereign;
The sence of this text now urged, so far as I understand is only this, that all that are baptized upon a just title are supposed to partake of the sanctifying operation of the Spirit, of which the washing of the water of baptisme is a sign, by which they are declared to be animated by one and the self-same Spirit,
The sense of this text now urged, so Far as I understand is only this, that all that Are baptised upon a just title Are supposed to partake of the sanctifying operation of the Spirit, of which the washing of the water of Baptism is a Signen, by which they Are declared to be animated by one and the selfsame Spirit,
But how you can draw such a conclusion hence that therefore these individuals are no ways related to Christ but as they are thus united to one another I cannot understand for the reasons before given.
But how you can draw such a conclusion hence that Therefore these individuals Are no ways related to christ but as they Are thus united to one Another I cannot understand for the Reasons before given.
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because all its individual members are, or ought to be so converted and baptized. Therefore saith he, every individual Christian is saved as incorporated into the Church.
Because all its Individu members Are, or ought to be so converted and baptised. Therefore Says he, every Individu Christian is saved as incorporated into the Church.
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he proceeds to the proof of the second part of the proposition, which is, that therefore every Christian is bound to joyn in external communion with the said Church.
he proceeds to the proof of the second part of the proposition, which is, that Therefore every Christian is bound to join in external communion with the said Church.
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This he thinks is clear upon two reasons, First because without such a conjunction the ends of Church society cannot be obtained, which ends are the solemn worship of God, the publick profession of our religion,
This he thinks is clear upon two Reasons, First Because without such a conjunction the ends of Church society cannot be obtained, which ends Are the solemn worship of God, the public profession of our Religion,
Secondly, Because without such a conjunction in external communion with the Catholick visible Church, we cannot be made partakers of the benefits and priviledges that Christ hath made over to the members of his Church, such are the pardon of sin,
Secondly, Because without such a conjunction in external communion with the Catholic visible Church, we cannot be made partakers of the benefits and privileges that christ hath made over to the members of his Church, such Are the pardon of since,
I answer, first, whereas he says that he hath made it evident, that every Christian, upon the account of his very being so, a member of the catholick visible Church, that I have already denied,
I answer, First, whereas he Says that he hath made it evident, that every Christian, upon the account of his very being so, a member of the catholic visible Church, that I have already denied,
and upon what grounds and reasons I have denied it is before shewn, as for his consequence that therefore every Christian is bound upon the very account of his being so, to joyn with the Church catholick visible in external communion:
and upon what grounds and Reasons I have denied it is before shown, as for his consequence that Therefore every Christian is bound upon the very account of his being so, to join with the Church catholic visible in external communion:
That I have also denyed and the reasons why I have shewed, as First, there is no such external communion to be had with that vast body as the catholick Church is, besides if there were, it might be unlawfull,
That I have also denied and the Reasons why I have showed, as First, there is no such external communion to be had with that vast body as the catholic Church is, beside if there were, it might be unlawful,
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Ans. What? not without a conjunction with the catholick visible Church? certainly meetings for solemn worship and mutuall Edification are not terms wherein Christians hold communion with the catholick visible Church,
Ans. What? not without a conjunction with the catholic visible Church? Certainly meetings for solemn worship and mutual Edification Are not terms wherein Christians hold communion with the catholic visible Church,
I wonder in what Assemblies do the Christians in England, and the Christians in Prestor Johns country meet for solemn worship and mutual Edification? I know he thinks the matter if salved, by telling us, that Christians meeting in any congregation in England, for worship and mutual Edification, do thereby hold externall communion in those things with the whole Church throughout the world.
I wonder in what Assemblies do the Christians in England, and the Christians in Prestor Johns country meet for solemn worship and mutual Edification? I know he thinks the matter if salved, by telling us, that Christians meeting in any congregation in England, for worship and mutual Edification, do thereby hold external communion in those things with the Whole Church throughout the world.
But I conceive this will not serve his turn, without the could equally imagine how a man by holding communion with the City of London might be said thereby to hold a civil external communion with all mankind, which I think is so wild a conceit as no man yet ever asserted,
But I conceive this will not serve his turn, without the could equally imagine how a man by holding communion with the city of London might be said thereby to hold a civil external communion with all mankind, which I think is so wild a conceit as no man yet ever asserted,
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for he must remember he is speaking of such an external communion that is proper to a politick visible Body, to the constituting of which kind of communion it is not enough to have the same laws, the same customes, no nor the same kind of solemn meetings for worship, to speak all visible Christians to be of the same external politick communion;
for he must Remember he is speaking of such an external communion that is proper to a politic visible Body, to the constituting of which kind of communion it is not enough to have the same laws, the same customs, no nor the same kind of solemn meetings for worship, to speak all visible Christians to be of the same external politic communion;
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as Constables, Justices, Parliament, and a King, as we have in England, and all under the Government of the very same invisible God, it doth not follow so long as there is no dependance of these Kingdomes each on the other, that therefore the people of England are of the same external politick communion with those in France. Yea further,
as Constables, Justices, Parliament, and a King, as we have in England, and all under the Government of the very same invisible God, it does not follow so long as there is no dependence of these Kingdoms each on the other, that Therefore the people of England Are of the same external politic communion with those in France. Yea further,
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I Answer, no such matter, for there is no need of such a Head, nor of any such external Politick Communion in the Church no more than in the World, God hath well enough Governed the World without any such Universal civil Monarch,
I Answer, no such matter, for there is no need of such a Head, nor of any such external Politic Communion in the Church no more than in the World, God hath well enough Governed the World without any such Universal civil Monarch,
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And now let us see what of force then is in his second reason, which is this, such a conjunction in external Communion with he Catholick visible Church is necessary, else we cannot possibly partake of the priviledges that Christ hath made over to this his Church,
And now let us see what of force then is in his second reason, which is this, such a conjunction in external Communion with he Catholic visible Church is necessary, Else we cannot possibly partake of the privileges that christ hath made over to this his Church,
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let this be granted what will thence follow? I am sure that will not follow which you say doth follow, that therefore we must first be made Members of the Church before we can be pardoned or sanctifyed by the Spirit:
let this be granted what will thence follow? I am sure that will not follow which you say does follow, that Therefore we must First be made Members of the Church before we can be pardoned or sanctified by the Spirit:
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for suppose the Church meets for solemn worship, and the minister is Preaching, and there comes in one or more Infidels for curiosity to see and hear, I hope you will not say that these Infidels because they are in the same place with the Church, that therefore they are joyned as Members with the Church;
for suppose the Church meets for solemn worship, and the minister is Preaching, and there comes in one or more Infidels for curiosity to see and hear, I hope you will not say that these Infidels Because they Are in the same place with the Church, that Therefore they Are joined as Members with the Church;
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I now demand, These men that thus are converted, do they believe without or with the Grace of the Spirit? again so soon as they have believed, are they pardoned or are they not? I say they could not have believed without the Grace of the Spirit,
I now demand, These men that thus Are converted, do they believe without or with the Grace of the Spirit? again so soon as they have believed, Are they pardoned or Are they not? I say they could not have believed without the Grace of the Spirit,
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How then can you say that men are obliged to joyn with the Church as Members, else they have neither Grace nor pardon? the very Truth is, the primary reason of Christs institution of visible Church Membership, was not for the giving of the first Grace of the Spirit,
How then can you say that men Are obliged to join with the Church as Members, Else they have neither Grace nor pardon? the very Truth is, the primary reason of Christ Institution of visible Church Membership, was not for the giving of the First Grace of the Spirit,
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as first (saith he) therefore their position is untrue, who maintain that our obligation to Church Communion ariseth from a voluntary admission of our selves into some particular congregation.
as First (Says he) Therefore their position is untrue, who maintain that our obligation to Church Communion arises from a voluntary admission of our selves into Some particular congregation.
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His second deduction is as wild, for (saith he) hence we may see how extravagantly they discourse that talk of Chrstianity at large, without relation to a Church or Communion with a Society.
His second deduction is as wild, for (Says he) hence we may see how extravagantly they discourse that talk of Christianity At large, without Relation to a Church or Communion with a Society.
and certainly we may with a very good reason sometimes discourse of Christians, as Christians, without relation to any Church whether particular or Universal, and this without any extravagancy. His second Proposition.
and Certainly we may with a very good reason sometime discourse of Christians, as Christians, without Relation to any Church whither particular or Universal, and this without any extravagancy. His second Proposition.
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That every one is bound to joyn in Communion with the established national Church to which he belongs, supposing there be nothing in the Terms of its Communion that renders it unlawful for him so to do.
That every one is bound to join in Communion with the established national Church to which he belongs, supposing there be nothing in the Terms of its Communion that renders it unlawful for him so to do.
To this I have already answered, that there is no such thing as an external Politick Communion to be had with the Catholick Church neither immediately which himself confesseth, no nor mediately by Communicating with some part of it,
To this I have already answered, that there is no such thing as an external Politic Communion to be had with the Catholic Church neither immediately which himself Confesses, no nor mediately by Communicating with Some part of it,
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But in case any such Communion could be had immediately or mediately, yet I would have it remembred, that this sort of Communion is not to be sought by every Christian upon the very account of his being so,
But in case any such Communion could be had immediately or mediately, yet I would have it remembered, that this sort of Communion is not to be sought by every Christian upon the very account of his being so,
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And how let us come to some Issue, we will grant you that every Christian, considered as visible, ought to endeavour to joyn with some part of the Catholick visible Church,
And how let us come to Some Issue, we will grant you that every Christian, considered as visible, ought to endeavour to join with Some part of the Catholic visible Church,
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for publick Worship and the edification of himself and others, but why this particular Church must be national, I do not understand, I am sure there is no need it should be national,
for public Worship and the edification of himself and Others, but why this particular Church must be national, I do not understand, I am sure there is no need it should be national,
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for I do as truly declare my self to be a visible Member of the Catholick visible Church, by joyning in external Communion with one single visisible Congregation,
for I do as truly declare my self to be a visible Member of the Catholic visible Church, by joining in external Communion with one single visisible Congregation,
But in very Truth, I do much doubt whether any such thing is to be had as an external Communion with a National Church, any more than with the Catholick visible Church:
But in very Truth, I do much doubt whither any such thing is to be had as an external Communion with a National Church, any more than with the Catholic visible Church:
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Now I would fain know where any Nation of Christians do meet together for solemn Worship, true if you could find any Nation of Christians that did often meet at one place to Worship God,
Now I would fain know where any nation of Christians do meet together for solemn Worship, true if you could find any nation of Christians that did often meet At one place to Worship God,
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and to rejoyce before the Lord together, as the Tribes of Israel used to do when they came up to Jerusalem to keep the Feasts of the Lord, I should not stick to call such a National Church united external Communion,
and to rejoice before the Lord together, as the Tribes of Israel used to do when they Come up to Jerusalem to keep the Feasts of the Lord, I should not stick to call such a National Church united external Communion,
but to speak of a joyning with a National Church of Christians in external Communion, where Millions of the Members of the supposed National Church, never perhaps came nigh one the other for scores of Miles, especially so as to Hear,
but to speak of a joining with a National Church of Christians in external Communion, where Millions of the Members of the supposed National Church, never perhaps Come High one the other for scores of Miles, especially so as to Hear,
If you say, but if we joyn with any one Worshipping Congregation in external Communion, we do thereby joyn with the whole Nation of Christians in external Communion.
If you say, but if we join with any one Worshipping Congregation in external Communion, we do thereby join with the Whole nation of Christians in external Communion.
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If you say so, I think you say more than you can prove, for I do not understand that because I Worship God with a Congregation in London, that therefore I Worship God with a Congregation at York. True, by my Worshipping at London I do declare my self to be of the same Faith with those that Worship at York, and I am therefore bound to account of them as my brethren,
If you say so, I think you say more than you can prove, for I do not understand that Because I Worship God with a Congregation in London, that Therefore I Worship God with a Congregation At York. True, by my Worshipping At London I do declare my self to be of the same Faith with those that Worship At York, and I am Therefore bound to account of them as my brothers,
and so to love and Pray for them as such, by which means an internal Communion is maintained as among Members that are supposed and hoped to be united to Christ,
and so to love and Pray for them as such, by which means an internal Communion is maintained as among Members that Are supposed and hoped to be united to christ,
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If you say that all the Christians in a Nation may hold an external Communion in being all under one Discipline, the management whereof being deposited in the hands of one visible Head,
If you say that all the Christians in a nation may hold an external Communion in being all under one Discipline, the management whereof being deposited in the hands of one visible Head,
This indeed were something, if it could be proved that Jesus Christ did ever appoint such an Officer for the Government of all his Disciples in each Nation,
This indeed were something, if it could be proved that jesus christ did ever appoint such an Officer for the Government of all his Disciples in each nation,
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but if it be made to appear that all Ministers or Pastors of particular Worshiping Congregations, have equal Power to Govern their respective Churches,
but if it be made to appear that all Ministers or Pastors of particular Worshipping Congregations, have equal Power to Govern their respective Churches,
and that they have no Power of jurisdiction one over another, and that there is no instituted Officers appointed by Christ Superior to them, with any Power of jurisdiction over them.
and that they have no Power of jurisdiction one over Another, and that there is no instituted Officers appointed by christ Superior to them, with any Power of jurisdiction over them.
He hath already said, that every Christian ought to joyn in external Communion with a National Church, that thereby he might hold Communion with the Catholick.
He hath already said, that every Christian ought to join in external Communion with a National Church, that thereby he might hold Communion with the Catholic.
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But it may be said, that there may be several distinct Churches in the place where we live, there may be the fixed regular Assemblies of the National Church,
But it may be said, that there may be several distinct Churches in the place where we live, there may be the fixed regular Assemblies of the National Church,
and consequently there is no necessity from that principle that we should hold Communion with the Assemblies of the National Church. So far he — Answ. Very good!
and consequently there is no necessity from that principle that we should hold Communion with the Assemblies of the National Church. So Far he — Answer Very good!
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now let us see how he answers it, which part of the Argument in the Objection doth he deny? doth he deny such separate Congregations to be parts of the Catholick Church? or doth he deny that in joyning with any part of the Catholick Church we thereby joyn with the whole? he denies neither:
now let us see how he answers it, which part of the Argument in the Objection does he deny? does he deny such separate Congregations to be parts of the Catholic Church? or does he deny that in joining with any part of the Catholic Church we thereby join with the Whole? he Denies neither:
Then I say he grants the whole, for these two being granted, the conclusion follows, that they who joyn with those separate Congregations do thereby preserve the Catholick Union;
Then I say he grants the Whole, for these two being granted, the conclusion follows, that they who join with those separate Congregations do thereby preserve the Catholic union;
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as suppose of Kingdomes or Corporations, that oblige its Subjects or Citizens to seek the Unity and Peace of those Societies or Citizens to seek the Unity the known Laws of the said Kingdoms;
as suppose of Kingdoms or Corporations, that oblige its Subject's or Citizens to seek the Unity and Peace of those Societies or Citizens to seek the Unity the known Laws of the said Kingdoms;
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and the orders of Corporations regulated by the Charters granted by their Princes? but if any inferiour Officers of Kingdoms or Corporations, shall impose Laws upon the Subjects or Citizens, that are not agreeable to,
and the order of Corporations regulated by the Charters granted by their Princes? but if any inferior Officers of Kingdoms or Corporations, shall impose Laws upon the Subject's or Citizens, that Are not agreeable to,
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as I suppose some of your own do, how can you say such (so long as they continue Communion with your National Church) seek not the Union of the Body as sar as is fit or needful.
as I suppose Some of your own doe, how can you say such (so long as they continue Communion with your National Church) seek not the union of the Body as sar as is fit or needful.
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and you deny not, that in case they could not Communicate with you without sin, but that they may lawfully separate without being guilty of any breach of union.
and you deny not, that in case they could not Communicate with you without since, but that they may lawfully separate without being guilty of any breach of Union.
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but since you have reserved your pretended proof thereof to the fourth Proposition, I shall therefore referre my answer thereto. His third Proposition.
but since you have reserved your pretended proof thereof to the fourth Proposition, I shall Therefore refer my answer thereto. His third Proposition.
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But if by Laws and Constitutions he means such that are meerly of mens devising and imposing under the penalty of Excommunication, without any command from Christ for so doing:
But if by Laws and Constitutions he means such that Are merely of men's devising and imposing under the penalty of Excommunication, without any command from christ for so doing:
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of which kind are the Observations of Days, Abstaining from Meats, Crossing in Baptism, Kneeling at the Supper, Reading Prayers, and that in a Surplice;
of which kind Are the Observations of Days, Abstaining from Meats, Crossing in Baptism, Kneeling At the Supper, Reading Prayers, and that in a Surplice;
or in not Healing on the Sabbath-day, which Traditions they made no scruple to transgresse, and to justifie such Transgression, to the shame and confusion of their Imposers.
or in not Healing on the Sabbath-day, which Traditions they made no scruple to transgress, and to justify such Transgression, to the shame and confusion of their Imposers.
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Again, who knows not that the Rulers of the Jewish Church had agreed, and so made it a Constitution of that Church, that if any confessed Christ he should be cast out of the Synagogue:
Again, who knows not that the Rulers of the Jewish Church had agreed, and so made it a Constitution of that Church, that if any confessed christ he should be cast out of the Synagogue:
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But in civil Societies, if the Inferiour Magistrates, as suppose the Heads of Corporations shall Enact Laws and make Constitutions and bind them on the Subjects so as in case of refusal to submit, they shall be deprived of the right and priviledges of Subjects,
But in civil Societies, if the Inferior Magistrates, as suppose the Heads of Corporations shall Enact Laws and make Constitutions and bind them on the Subject's so as in case of refusal to submit, they shall be deprived of the right and privileges of Subject's,
that I say, it's the Basis of all Confusion to such Societies, answerably, if any Officers of Churches shall presume without warrant from Christ, to make Laws and bind them on the Disciples necks, upon the penalties of depriving them of the rights and priviledges of Christians,
that I say, it's the Basis of all Confusion to such Societies, answerably, if any Officers of Churches shall presume without warrant from christ, to make Laws and bind them on the Disciples necks, upon the penalties of depriving them of the rights and privileges of Christians,
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And whereas he saith, To suppose a Society, and yet to suppose the members of it not under an obligation to obey its Laws and Government, is to make Ropes of sand,
And whereas he Says, To suppose a Society, and yet to suppose the members of it not under an obligation to obey its Laws and Government, is to make Ropes of sand,
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but are certain Monstrosities in the body politick, as such kind of Sinews or Ligaments in the body naturall are reputed, which are not necessary or usefull but are Impediments to a regular motion of the members,
but Are certain Monstrosities in the body politic, as such kind of Sinews or Ligaments in the body natural Are reputed, which Are not necessary or useful but Are Impediments to a regular motion of the members,
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Well, but let us see how he clears this, he further saith pag. 16. It must be acknowledged in the first place, that the Church must (as all other Societies) be entrusted with at least so much power over her subjects as is necessary for the securing of her own welfare and preservation:
Well, but let us see how he clears this, he further Says page. 16. It must be acknowledged in the First place, that the Church must (as all other Societies) be Entrusted with At least so much power over her subject's as is necessary for the securing of her own welfare and preservation:
For to think otherwise is to suppose God to have founded a Church and Intended the well being and continuance of it (which are things that every one must grant) and yet to suppose he hath denyed her the use of the means without which the well being and continuance cannot be attained; which is monstrous and contradictious.
For to think otherwise is to suppose God to have founded a Church and Intended thee well being and Continuance of it (which Are things that every one must grant) and yet to suppose he hath denied her the use of the means without which the well being and Continuance cannot be attained; which is monstrous and contradictious.
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It is plain, that the Author speaks here of a particular Church, as may be seen by a review of the proposition, where he speaks of a membership with any Church, i. e.
It is plain, that the Author speaks Here of a particular Church, as may be seen by a review of the proposition, where he speaks of a membership with any Church, i. e.
This Argument proceedeth upon an Hypothesis, that is not necessarily true, as the Author imagineth, viz. that God in causing this or that particular Church to be planted, must needs Intend its continuance;
This Argument Proceedeth upon an Hypothesis, that is not necessarily true, as the Author imagineth, viz. that God in causing this or that particular Church to be planted, must needs Intend its Continuance;
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Perhaps you will say, that was through their own fault by not making use of that power that God gave them to preserve themselves, say you so? what then say you to the Church of Christ first planted at Jerusalem? we read, Acts 8.1.2.
Perhaps you will say, that was through their own fault by not making use of that power that God gave them to preserve themselves, say you so? what then say you to the Church of christ First planted At Jerusalem? we read, Acts 8.1.2.
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that a great persecution arose, and they were all scattered, and none left at Jerusalem except the Apostles. (And it is as easie to conceive that the Apostles might have been scattered as the rest:) I ask now, was this Church continued? or if it was not, was it because they made not use of that power, that God intrusted them with for their preservation? what would you have had them done? what, repelled force with force? I know you believe no such power was intrusted with them,
that a great persecution arose, and they were all scattered, and none left At Jerusalem except the Apostles. (And it is as easy to conceive that the Apostles might have been scattered as the rest:) I ask now, was this Church continued? or if it was not, was it Because they made not use of that power, that God Entrusted them with for their preservation? what would you have had them done? what, repelled force with force? I know you believe no such power was Entrusted with them,
and yet it's certain that this dispersion was not besides the intention of God, therefore it is not necessary as you suppose, that God must always intend the preservation of every particular Church he causeth to be planted.
and yet it's certain that this dispersion was not beside the intention of God, Therefore it is not necessary as you suppose, that God must always intend the preservation of every particular Church he Causes to be planted.
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But in the next place let us grant your supposition, that God intends the continuance of every Church he causeth to be planted, what then? you say then, he must needs intrust the said Churches with so much power, that is necessary to preserve themselves,
But in the next place let us grant your supposition, that God intends the Continuance of every Church he Causes to be planted, what then? you say then, he must needs intrust the said Churches with so much power, that is necessary to preserve themselves,
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Perhaps you will say if the Consequence be not universally true, yet it is as to the particulars of Heresies and Schismes that arise out of the Church:
Perhaps you will say if the Consequence be not universally true, yet it is as to the particulars of Heresies and Schisms that arise out of the Church:
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For if God had not provided the Church with so much power as is necessary to suppresse those evills, he must be wanting in providing means for the Churches preservation.
For if God had not provided the Church with so much power as is necessary to suppress those evils, he must be wanting in providing means for the Churches preservation.
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I Answer, that will be soon seen, if we consider all that power that God hath truly given his Churches to keep them from these evils, which are so far as I understand, the Bible,
I Answer, that will be soon seen, if we Consider all that power that God hath truly given his Churches to keep them from these evils, which Are so Far as I understand, the bible,
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for what if the Pastors themselves, by a neglect of those means I named, should lapse into Heresies, it is certain if they came to determine, they would Establish Heresies, and not root them up.
for what if the Pastors themselves, by a neglect of those means I nam, should lapse into Heresies, it is certain if they Come to determine, they would Establish Heresies, and not root them up.
and what they would be Cannon oblige them to, in matters of worship, be agreeable to the word of God, they may justly make no scruple to dissent in the one and the other.
and what they would be Cannon oblige them to, in matters of worship, be agreeable to the word of God, they may justly make no scruple to dissent in the one and the other.
He proceeds thus, That since the preservation of a Church cannot be secured, but by a providing for a due and orderly performance of the worship of God,
He proceeds thus, That since the preservation of a Church cannot be secured, but by a providing for a due and orderly performance of the worship of God,
and by maintaining peace and unity among its members, it necessarily follows in Generall, that whatever power over her subjects is necessary in order to either of these things, all that at least must be supposed to be Lodged in the Church, that is to say, in those that have the Government of it.
and by maintaining peace and unity among its members, it necessarily follows in General, that whatever power over her subject's is necessary in order to either of these things, all that At least must be supposed to be Lodged in the Church, that is to say, in those that have the Government of it.
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I answer, If you mean hereby that Jesus Christ hath by directions and precepts provided what is necessary for the due and orderly performance of Gods worship,
I answer, If you mean hereby that jesus christ hath by directions and Precepts provided what is necessary for the due and orderly performance of God's worship,
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and likewise for the preserving his Churches in peace and Unity, and that he hath in a special manner intrusted those directions and precepts with the Pastors of Churches, to teach and command the Churches to worship God according to these directions,
and likewise for the preserving his Churches in peace and Unity, and that he hath in a special manner Entrusted those directions and Precepts with the Pastors of Churches, to teach and command the Churches to worship God according to these directions,
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But if you mean thereby that Christ hath intrusted the Governours of Churches with an Arbitrary power, to institute such things for a pretended due and orderly worship, which neither were in use with Christ and his Apostles or those first Churches,
But if you mean thereby that christ hath Entrusted the Governors of Churches with an Arbitrary power, to institute such things for a pretended due and orderly worship, which neither were in use with christ and his Apostles or those First Churches,
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of that she her self is to be Judge, her members being no farther concerned therein than onely before they obey her Impositions to see that they be not repugnant to the known Laws of God.
of that she her self is to be Judge, her members being no farther concerned therein than only before they obey her Impositions to see that they be not repugnant to the known Laws of God.
For since you leave them to be Judges, whether there is or is not, it is but equall that those you leave to be Judges, that they should be left to act according to their judgements in such a case as this is, which you yield to fall under their cognisance.
For since you leave them to be Judges, whither there is or is not, it is but equal that those you leave to be Judges, that they should be left to act according to their Judgments in such a case as this is, which you yield to fallen under their cognisance.
and follow their Leaders in a blind Obedience, and in case their Leaders be blind also you would there in direct them to an excellent expedient how they may come all to fall into the Ditch.
and follow their Leaders in a blind obedience, and in case their Leaders be blind also you would there in Direct them to an excellent expedient how they may come all to fallen into the Ditch.
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He Infers again, Hence it will follow that the Church must be furnished with a power, to end and determine controversies of Religion, that arise among its membmers, that is to say, to give an Authoritative decision of them as that all parties are bound to acquiesce in it, else she could not preserve her self in peace and unity.
He Infers again, Hence it will follow that the Church must be furnished with a power, to end and determine controversies of Religion, that arise among its membmers, that is to say, to give an Authoritative decision of them as that all parties Are bound to acquiesce in it, Else she could not preserve her self in peace and unity.
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then I grant (that if Church Governours determine as the Apostle you confesse pag. 1. doth) that those differing parties should remember each other as brethren,
then I grant (that if Church Governors determine as the Apostle you confess page. 1. does) that those differing parties should Remember each other as brothers,
and Communicate with each other as such, forbearing to censure each other, as being the Lords servants to whom they must stand or fall, that the members ought to acquiesce in this their determination.
and Communicate with each other as such, forbearing to censure each other, as being the lords Servants to whom they must stand or fallen, that the members ought to acquiesce in this their determination.
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But in case that Church Governours shall side with one party, and with them shall (contrary to the said rule and practice of the Apostle) endeavour to force by their determination, the other party to do and say as they do, or else to excommunicate them;
But in case that Church Governors shall side with one party, and with them shall (contrary to the said Rule and practice of the Apostle) endeavour to force by their determination, the other party to do and say as they do, or Else to excommunicate them;
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If the points of Controversie be about such matters where those that hold on one side do Espouse such doctrines or ways of worship that are of very dangerous Consequence to the Salvation to their Souls, (such are they that are espoused by Arians, Socinians, Papists ) I say In these instances,
If the points of Controversy be about such matters where those that hold on one side do Espouse such doctrines or ways of worship that Are of very dangerous Consequence to the Salvation to their Souls, (such Are they that Are espoused by Arians, socinians, Papists) I say In these instances,
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the Members are bound to acquiesce therein, but not meerely because of their determination, but because their determinations are sounded on the Revelations of God,
the Members Are bound to acquiesce therein, but not merely Because of their determination, but Because their determinations Are sounded on the Revelations of God,
for the Socinians, Arrians, Papists, I say then, the Members were not obliged to acquiesce in these determinations, notwithstanding all the pretences of Unity and Peace that may be obtained thereby.
for the socinians, Arians, Papists, I say then, the Members were not obliged to acquiesce in these determinations, notwithstanding all the pretences of Unity and Peace that may be obtained thereby.
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The Author being sensible that what he last said, if taken in the utmost extent of its signification, would be dangerous, begins to limit his sence thereof;
The Author being sensible that what he last said, if taken in the utmost extent of its signification, would be dangerous, begins to limit his sense thereof;
doth not imply any Authority over our Judgements, or that in virtue thereof she can oblige us to give an inward assent to her determinations, any further than she gives us evidence for the Truth of them;
does not imply any authority over our Judgments, or that in virtue thereof she can oblige us to give an inward assent to her determinations, any further than she gives us evidence for the Truth of them;
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this is absolutely necessary to prevent the over running of Heresies, and the embroyling the Church in infinite quarrels and Controversies to the destruction of the publick Peace.
this is absolutely necessary to prevent thee over running of Heresies, and the embroiling the Church in infinite quarrels and Controversies to the destruction of the public Peace.
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I answer, first by concession I grant according to this, here is good Provision made for the Purity and Peace of the Church so long as the Governours determine on the right side;
I answer, First by concession I grant according to this, Here is good Provision made for the Purity and Peace of the Church so long as the Governors determine on the right side;
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for the overspreading the Church with them than this is, for in case they determine for Socinians, Arrians, Popery, you say that the Members are obliged as to their practice though not as to their Judgements to Acquiesce in the said determinations.
for the overspreading the Church with them than this is, for in case they determine for socinians, Arians, Popery, you say that the Members Are obliged as to their practice though not as to their Judgments to Acquiesce in the said determinations.
But if this were true, then in the times of the predominancy of Arianisme, when some hundreds of Arian Bishops met in Councel and determined wickedly against the Deity of Christ, in that point to himself,
But if this were true, then in the times of the predominancy of Arianism, when Some hundreds of Arian Bishops met in Council and determined wickedly against the Deity of christ, in that point to himself,
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and as for Wickliffe, Husse, Hierome of Prague, and afterwards Luther, they were all Peace breakers, in declaring against the abominable opinions and Antichristian Faith of the Church of Rome, they ought all of them to have kept their Judgements to themselves,
and as for Wickliffe, Husse, Jerome of Prague, and afterwards Luther, they were all Peace breakers, in declaring against the abominable opinions and Antichristian Faith of the Church of Rome, they ought all of them to have kept their Judgments to themselves,
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they ought onely to have kept their judgements to themselves, but other wise to have conformed in outward practice to the instituted Worship, which to say, is contrary to the Judgement of God in that case who commended his 7000 in Israel that bowed not the knee to Baal, the commendation was, that they neither conformed in Judgement nor practice.
they ought only to have kept their Judgments to themselves, but other wise to have conformed in outward practice to the instituted Worship, which to say, is contrary to the Judgement of God in that case who commended his 7000 in Israel that bowed not the knee to Baal, the commendation was, that they neither conformed in Judgement nor practice.
Very good let that be his meaning, now I would fain know what are those acts wherein Members may be said to practise contrary to such determinations? what if they withdraw and refuse Communion with such a Church that holds to such determinations;
Very good let that be his meaning, now I would fain know what Are those acts wherein Members may be said to practise contrary to such determinations? what if they withdraw and refuse Communion with such a Church that holds to such determinations;
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But yet again, may a publick declaration by word of Mouth or writing, be judged an acting contrary to such determinations? I doubt not but you think it so to be.
But yet again, may a public declaration by word of Mouth or writing, be judged an acting contrary to such determinations? I doubt not but you think it so to be.
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Perhaps you will say this was an extraordinary case, for a miracle was here wrought by a great Prophet, which gave a virtual warrant to the People for such a declaration,
Perhaps you will say this was an extraordinary case, for a miracle was Here wrought by a great Prophet, which gave a virtual warrant to the People for such a declaration,
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now I ask you if there be the same degree, or a sufficient degree of conviction in any other people, that this or that decision of Governours of Churches be clearly against the mind of God,
now I ask you if there be the same degree, or a sufficient degree of conviction in any other people, that this or that decision of Governors of Churches be clearly against the mind of God,
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though the reason of the conviction be not a miracle wrought in their presence, but a consideration of what is evidently declared in the Bible, that in its time had the confirmation of many miracles wrought by a greater than Elisha, even by the Son of God;
though the reason of the conviction be not a miracle wrought in their presence, but a consideration of what is evidently declared in the bible, that in its time had the confirmation of many Miracles wrought by a greater than Elisha, even by the Son of God;
whether this conviction so wrought gives not as good and ample Authority to either Ministers or People, to declare by Word of Mouth or Writing against such decisions of Church Governours, which have determined evidently against plain Revelations,
whither this conviction so wrought gives not as good and ample authority to either Ministers or People, to declare by Word of Mouth or Writing against such decisions of Church Governors, which have determined evidently against plain Revelations,
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by Church he understands either some particular Worshiping Congregation, or a National Church, as for this latter notion of a Church when he hath shewed us, that it was,
by Church he understands either Some particular Worshipping Congregation, or a National Church, as for this latter notion of a Church when he hath showed us, that it was,
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or is the will of Christ, that all the Christians in every Nation should after the manner of the Jews, be united under the same visible Head of High Priest,
or is the will of christ, that all the Christians in every nation should After the manner of the jews, be united under the same visible Head of High Priest,
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and of a National Membership therein, but till then I shall take the boldness to deny that any Christian is capable of any such National Church Membership.
and of a National Membership therein, but till then I shall take the boldness to deny that any Christian is capable of any such National Church Membership.
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But if he doth here mean by Church a particular Worshiping Congregation, such are the parochial Churches of England, and such are the Congregations of Non-conformists,
But if he does Here mean by Church a particular Worshipping Congregation, such Are the parochial Churches of England, and such Are the Congregations of nonconformists,
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then we shall consider what he further saith, which is this, That no Christians can have just cause of withdrawing Communion from the Church whereof they are Members, if we should understand it indifferently of Non-conformists Churches as parochial, the meaning would be, that no Member that either is joyn'd to the one or the other, have just cause to withdraw Communion from either of them, but when &c.
then we shall Consider what he further Says, which is this, That no Christians can have just cause of withdrawing Communion from the Church whereof they Are Members, if we should understand it indifferently of nonconformists Churches as parochial, the meaning would be, that no Member that either is joined to the one or the other, have just cause to withdraw Communion from either of them, but when etc.
I answer, this is sooner said than proved, for did the regularity or Schismaticalnesse of a Church depend on such an externall fickle consideration as the Law of the Land,
I answer, this is sooner said than proved, for did the regularity or Schismaticalnesse of a Church depend on such an external fickle consideration as the Law of the Land,
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so that an Act of Parliament, that makes the Episcopal Churches regular to day, the very same Churches by a change of an Act might be made Schismatical to morrow;
so that an Act of Parliament, that makes the Episcopal Churches regular to day, the very same Churches by a change of an Act might be made Schismatical to morrow;
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and so if the Legislative Power pleased, both Episcopal, Independant, Presbyterian, Anabaptistical Churches may be regular and Schismatical in their turns.
and so if the Legislative Power pleased, both Episcopal, Independent, Presbyterian, Anabaptistical Churches may be regular and Schismatical in their turns.
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Lastly, when you say no Communion may justly be with drawn from, but when it cannot be continued without the Commission of sin, here again, I desire to know whether by sin you mean such that may be evidenced to be such, to the conviction of the imposers;
Lastly, when you say no Communion may justly be with drawn from, but when it cannot be continued without the Commission of since, Here again, I desire to know whither by since you mean such that may be evidenced to be such, to the conviction of the imposers;
except you will run y our selves upon these straits, either to turn Papists, or undertake to convince the Papists, that the reason why you came off from them and their Worship, was because you could not Communicate with them therein without sin, we know you tell them so,
except you will run y our selves upon these straits, either to turn Papists, or undertake to convince the Papists, that the reason why you Come off from them and their Worship, was Because you could not Communicate with them therein without since, we know you tell them so,
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I desire now but the like equity for the Non-conformists, and that is, that if they have reasons sufficient to convince their own Consciences, that the things imposed are sinful though their reasons convince not their imposers, that you would give them that liberty of Acquiescing therein,
I desire now but the like equity for the nonconformists, and that is, that if they have Reasons sufficient to convince their own Consciences, that the things imposed Are sinful though their Reasons convince not their imposers, that you would give them that liberty of Acquiescing therein,
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And so that unquestionable Casuist, the Apostle, determines in the case Rom. 14, 14. For I know, and am perswaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean in it self,
And so that unquestionable Casuist, the Apostle, determines in the case Rom. 14, 14. For I know, and am persuaded by the Lord jesus, that there is nothing unclean in it self,
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And if it were not to light up Candles while the Sun shines, I would tell you, that a meer suspition of a sin, is a sufficient ground for withdrawing Communion, in the Judgments of other very great men.
And if it were not to Light up Candles while the Sun shines, I would tell you, that a mere suspicion of a since, is a sufficient ground for withdrawing Communion, in the Judgments of other very great men.
So says that universally admired man, Mr. Hales, of Schisme, pag. 8. says he, In these Schismes which concern Fact, nothing can be a just cause of refusing Communion,
So Says that universally admired man, Mr. Hales, of Schism, page. 8. Says he, In these Schisms which concern Fact, nothing can be a just cause of refusing Communion,
Cautissimi cujusque preceptum quod dubitas nefeceris, To load, saith he, our publick Formes with private phantasies, (upon which we differ) is the most Soveraign way to perpetuate Schisme unto the Worlds end.
Cautissimi cujusque preceptum quod dubitas nefeceris, To load, Says he, our public Forms with private fantasies, (upon which we differ) is the most Sovereign Way to perpetuate Schism unto the World's end.
If the spiritual Guides of the Church would be a little spareing of incumbering Churches with superfluities, &c. there would be far lesse Cause of Schisme or Superstition, and all the inconveniences were likely to ensue, would be but this, they should in so doing yeild a little to the imbecillity of their Inferiours, a thing which St. Paul would never have refused to do, Mean while I pray mark this, wheresoever false or suspected opinions, are made a piece of Church Liturgie, he that separates is not the Schismatick,
If the spiritual Guides of the Church would be a little sparing of encumbering Churches with superfluities, etc. there would be Far less Cause of Schism or Superstition, and all the inconveniences were likely to ensue, would be but this, they should in so doing yield a little to the imbecility of their Inferiors, a thing which Saint Paul would never have refused to do, Mean while I pray mark this, wheresoever false or suspected opinions, Are made a piece of Church Liturgy, he that separates is not the Schismatic,
Where any Church retaining purity of Doctrine, doth require the owning of, and conforming to, any unlawful or suspected practice, men may lawfully deny Conformity to,
Where any Church retaining purity of Doctrine, does require the owning of, and conforming to, any unlawful or suspected practice, men may lawfully deny Conformity to,
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If it be said here, that the Popes power was a usurpation, which is not in Lawfull Governours of Churches, it is soon replyed, that the Popes usurpation, mainly lies in imposing things upon mens Consciences as necessary, which are doubtfull or unlawfull:
If it be said Here, that the Popes power was a usurpation, which is not in Lawful Governors of Churches, it is soon replied, that the Popes usurpation, mainly lies in imposing things upon men's Consciences as necessary, which Are doubtful or unlawful:
That which we plead for against the Papists, is, that all men have their eyes in their heads as well as the Pope, that every one hath a Judicium privatae discretionis, which is the rule of practice as to himself,
That which we plead for against the Papists, is, that all men have their eyes in their Heads as well as the Pope, that every one hath a Judicium privatae discretionis, which is the Rule of practice as to himself,
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yet that extends not to an obligation upon men to go against the dictates of their own reason and Conscience, &c. A man hath not the power over his own understanding, much lesse can others have it.
yet that extends not to an obligation upon men to go against the dictates of their own reason and Conscience, etc. A man hath not the power over his own understanding, much less can Others have it.
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Nullus credit aliquid esse verum quia vult credere id esse verum, non est in potestate hominis facere aliquid apparere intellectui suo verum quando volucrit.
Nullus credit Aliquid esse verum quia vult Believe id esse verum, non est in potestate hominis facere Aliquid apparere intellectui Sue verum quando volucrit.
Either therefore men are bound to obey Church Governours in all things, Absolutely, without Restriction or Limitation, (which if it be not usurpation and dominion over others Faith in them,
Either Therefore men Are bound to obey Church Governors in all things, Absolutely, without Restriction or Limitation, (which if it be not usurpation and dominion over Others Faith in them,
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and the worst of implicit Faith in others, it is hard to define what either of them is) or else if they be bound to obey onely in Lawfull things, I then enquire, who must be Judge what things are Lawfull,
and the worst of implicit Faith in Others, it is hard to define what either of them is) or Else if they be bound to obey only in Lawful things, I then inquire, who must be Judge what things Are Lawful,
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If every private person must judge what is Lawfull, and what not, which is Commanded, (as when all is said, every man will be his own Judge in this case, in things concerning his own welfare) then he is no further bound to obey,
If every private person must judge what is Lawful, and what not, which is Commanded, (as when all is said, every man will be his own Judge in this case, in things Concerning his own welfare) then he is no further bound to obey,
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These testimonies are so clear, and backt with such unanswerable reason, that I shall now not scruple to qualifie the proposition under consideration thus, that where the commission of sin, (so saith he, I add or the doing any thing that is suspected to be sinfull,) is required as the condition of Communion, there a withdrawing is Lawfull and not at all Schismatical.
These testimonies Are so clear, and backed with such unanswerable reason, that I shall now not scruple to qualify the proposition under consideration thus, that where the commission of since, (so Says he, I add or the doing any thing that is suspected to be sinful,) is required as the condition of Communion, there a withdrawing is Lawful and not At all Schismatical.
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Having thus given an account of these different scenes, in which both he and I do understand the several parts of this proposition, I shall now come to examine what he hath said for the confirmation thereof,
Having thus given an account of these different scenes, in which both he and I do understand the several parts of this proposition, I shall now come to examine what he hath said for the confirmation thereof,
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one is, when the Church requires of us, as a Condition of her Communion, an acknowledgment and profession of that to be truth, which we know to be an errour;
one is, when the Church requires of us, as a Condition of her Communion, an acknowledgment and profession of that to be truth, which we know to be an error;
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But whereas he saith, that the errour must be known to be such, and the practice known to be against the Law of God, to that I say, that knowledge implyes certainty.
But whereas he Says, that the error must be known to be such, and the practice known to be against the Law of God, to that I say, that knowledge Implies certainty.
as I have proved from the Apostle, and the testimonies and reasons of Mr. Hales, and Dr. Stillingsleet. This being premised, I shall now proceed to a Consideration of those grounds which he supposeth Non-conformists plead as sufficient causes of their separation,
as I have proved from the Apostle, and the testimonies and Reasons of Mr. Hales, and Dr. Stillingsfleet. This being premised, I shall now proceed to a Consideration of those grounds which he Supposeth nonconformists plead as sufficient Causes of their separation,
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and Fancyes to himself a great victory, for from that supposition he thus argues, Those unscriptural impositions which are neither commanded nor forbid, by any general or particular rules in Scripture, are eitherin themselves Lawfull or unlawfull,
and Fancies to himself a great victory, for from that supposition he thus argues, Those unscriptural impositions which Are neither commanded nor forbid, by any general or particular rules in Scripture, Are eitherin themselves Lawful or unlawful,
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if unlawfull, then they are against some Particular or Generall scriptural rule, & so cannot fall under the notion of unscriptural Impositions, which are supposed to be against neither of these Rules,
if unlawful, then they Are against Some Particular or General scriptural Rule, & so cannot fallen under the notion of unscriptural Impositions, which Are supposed to be against neither of these Rules,
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They are such things, the religious use whereof is imposed upon Christians, in the Worship and Service of God, under the penalties of depriving Ministers of their office,
They Are such things, the religious use whereof is imposed upon Christians, in the Worship and Service of God, under the penalties of depriving Ministers of their office,
or the exercise thereof, and of depriving both them and private Christians of the liberty of enjoying Gospell Ordinances or the Priviledges of a Visible Church state, by the censure of excommunication, which are things that are not either Commanded,
or the exercise thereof, and of depriving both them and private Christians of the liberty of enjoying Gospel Ordinances or the Privileges of a Visible Church state, by the censure of excommunication, which Are things that Are not either Commanded,
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and sinfulnesse thereof, and upon this latter consideration, I call them antiscriptural, as being religious Customes and Usages contrary to these General rules, &c.
and sinfulness thereof, and upon this latter consideration, I call them antiscriptural, as being religious Customs and Usages contrary to these General rules, etc.
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Either you say, these things thus imposed are in themselves lawfull or unlawfull. I answer, Your argument as you form it, is trivial and not to the purpose;
Either you say, these things thus imposed Are in themselves lawful or unlawful. I answer, Your argument as you from it, is trivial and not to the purpose;
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Here had been a fit place for you to have shewn your strength, (if you had any) in Convincing us, that the Religious use of these things in Gods Worship, is Lawfull antecedently to the Imposition.
Here had been a fit place for you to have shown your strength, (if you had any) in Convincing us, that the Religious use of these things in God's Worship, is Lawful antecedently to the Imposition.
But we have not a word hereof, and therefore since I find no more opposition therein, I might justly dismiss this first thing without any further Reply.
But we have not a word hereof, and Therefore since I find no more opposition therein, I might justly dismiss this First thing without any further Reply.
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Which is sufficient to make their imposition a warrantable ground of withdrawing (though the Evidence thereof be not so great, as to Convince our Gainsayers;
Which is sufficient to make their imposition a warrantable ground of withdrawing (though the Evidence thereof be not so great, as to Convince our Gainsayers;
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Whoever pleaseth to see an excellent paraphrase upon this verse, let him read it in Mr. John Dale in his exposition on this Epistle, which hath the Imprimatur Tho. Tomkins Ex Aed.
Whoever Pleases to see an excellent Paraphrase upon this verse, let him read it in Mr. John Dale in his exposition on this Epistle, which hath the Imprimatur Tho. Tomkins Ex Aed.
And though men boast of their utility, they are extreamly hurtfull, as pestering Consciences, and busying them about things which God hath not ordained,
And though men boast of their utility, they Are extremely hurtful, as pestering Consciences, and busying them about things which God hath not ordained,
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As indeed it's an unsufferable presumption, that men should attempt to prescribe the form of Gods service, especially after the declaration which himself hath vouchsafed to make of his holy will,
As indeed it's an unsufferable presumption, that men should attempt to prescribe the from of God's service, especially After the declaration which himself hath vouchsafed to make of his holy will,
and instead of obeying his Orders, and causing others to dispatch them; fall a Philosophising in his house, and giving his Family a new Rule to observe,
and instead of obeying his Order, and causing Others to dispatch them; fallen a Philosophising in his house, and giving his Family a new Rule to observe,
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But Common sense dictateth to the meanest capacities, that such undertaking Spirits, merit not so much as to be heard, especially where God is concerned, in Comparison of whom, they with all their sufficiency are but poor worms of the Earth.
But Common sense dictateth to the Meanest capacities, that such undertaking Spirits, merit not so much as to be herd, especially where God is concerned, in Comparison of whom, they with all their sufficiency Are but poor worms of the Earth.
Hold we firm therefore this Foundation of the Apostle, that the Traditions of men ought to have no place in Religion, it concerns me not to inform my self of their age whether they be the Traditions of Men Antient or Modern, it sufficeth that I know they are Traditions of men, having the Apostles advertisement we should not be moved with any reason,
Hold we firm Therefore this Foundation of the Apostle, that the Traditions of men ought to have no place in Religion, it concerns me not to inform my self of their age whither they be the Traditions of Men Ancient or Modern, it Suffices that I know they Are Traditions of men, having the Apostles advertisement we should not be moved with any reason,
or very negligently hath regard to that Jealousie that God hath over his Worship; (as is frequently taken notice of in Scriptures) is apt to think of these fictitious Ceremonies of Worship as very indifferent and harmless matters;
or very negligently hath regard to that Jealousy that God hath over his Worship; (as is frequently taken notice of in Scriptures) is apt to think of these fictitious Ceremonies of Worship as very indifferent and harmless matters;
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yea, and in other things Wise and Learned, when they hear of the plausible pretexts for their institution, to be perswaded into a conceit of their usefulness:
yea, and in other things Wise and Learned, when they hear of the plausible pretexts for their Institution, to be persuaded into a conceit of their usefulness:
here was a well meant proposal, and a very sudden and rash answer, as appears by that sudden check that the Lord that very night put to it, v. 4. and it came to passe that night that the Word of the Lord came to Nathan the Prophet, saying, go and tell my Servant David, saying, Shalt thou build me an House for me to dwell in? again, v. 7. Speak I a word with any of the Tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my People Israel, saying why build ye not me an house of Cedar? it is evident from hence that though both David and Nathans meaning were good,
Here was a well meant proposal, and a very sudden and rash answer, as appears by that sudden check that the Lord that very night put to it, v. 4. and it Come to pass that night that the Word of the Lord Come to Nathan the Prophet, saying, go and tell my Servant David, saying, Shalt thou built me an House for me to dwell in? again, v. 7. Speak I a word with any of the Tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my People Israel, saying why built you not me an house of Cedar? it is evident from hence that though both David and Nathans meaning were good,
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quia Dominus tecum est ] est Paralogismus a secundum quid and Simpliciter. Ver. 4. In illâ nocte, ] Deus non patitur suos diù decipi cùm videat eos Simpliciter errare. v. 5. Numquid tu aedificabis? ] qu. cur David retrahitur & Judaei in Hag. 1. Arguuntur quod non aedificent? Respond.
quia Dominus tecum est ] est Paralogismus a secundum quid and Simpliciter. Ver. 4. In illâ nocte, ] Deus non patitur suos diù decipi cùm Videat eos Simpliciter errare. v. 5. Numquid tu aedificabis? ] queen. cur David retrahitur & Judaei in Hag. 1. Arguuntur quod non aedificent? Respond.
Thus have I given you some further account, why at least we suspect the Religious use of these things in Gods Service to be unlawful, antecedent to any imposition.
Thus have I given you Some further account, why At least we suspect the Religious use of these things in God's Service to be unlawful, antecedent to any imposition.
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As for that text so commonly monly urged, let all things be done in decency and order, it will do you little Service in such like cases as we have instanced in,
As for that text so commonly monly urged, let all things be done in decency and order, it will do you little Service in such like cases as we have instanced in,
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and not of such that have their result onely from the arbitrarious Fancies of Men, of the former kind of order and decency the God of Nature is the Author, of the other mans imagination;
and not of such that have their result only from the arbitrarious Fancies of Men, of the former kind of order and decency the God of Nature is the Author, of the other men imagination;
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for the undecency and disorder there reproved, is such as speaking in a strange Tongue to the Church met together for edification, which sometimes none understood but him that spake,
for the undecency and disorder there reproved, is such as speaking in a strange Tongue to the Church met together for edification, which sometime none understood but him that spoke,
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or such as consisted in some Womens forwardnesse to teach and instruct the Church, which consisted much of men, which was contrary to that order where in God had placed that Sex in Subjection to men,
or such as consisted in Some Women's forwardness to teach and instruct the Church, which consisted much of men, which was contrary to that order where in God had placed that Sex in Subjection to men,
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But what is there in these Ceremonies, or in the Nature of them, abstracted from mans imagination, that hath any thing of this natural order and decency,
But what is there in these Ceremonies, or in the Nature of them, abstracted from men imagination, that hath any thing of this natural order and decency,
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or for many to be speaking together, but lay aside Imagination and I wonder what indecency is in praying without a Surplice or Administring Baptism without the sign of the Crosse?
or for many to be speaking together, but lay aside Imagination and I wonder what indecency is in praying without a Surplice or Administering Baptism without the Signen of the Cross?
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In Truth their pretended decency, is much like that decency that David imagined, which was the reason of his contriving for God a house, thus he reasoned;
In Truth their pretended decency, is much like that decency that David imagined, which was the reason of his contriving for God a house, thus he reasoned;
shall I dwell in a house of Cedar, and is it decent or comely that the Ark of God should dwell within Curtaines? one would have thought his reason from decency was good,
shall I dwell in a house of Cedar, and is it decent or comely that the Ark of God should dwell within Curtains? one would have Thought his reason from decency was good,
but as you have heard God answered his reason and reproved his humane Judgement therein, so that an argument from decency in such matters is very falacious:
but as you have herd God answered his reason and reproved his humane Judgement therein, so that an argument from decency in such matters is very fallacious:
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why then do we Religiously make use of Churches to meet in, Pulpits to Preach in, Communion Table to eat the Lords Supper on? are not all these things Religiously used in the Worship of God,
why then do we Religiously make use of Churches to meet in, Pulpits to Preach in, Communion Table to eat the lords Supper on? Are not all these things Religiously used in the Worship of God,
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for certainly it's more than a phantasy to say, it's convenient that when the worshippers meet together for worship, they should have a capacious house to meet in, to shelter them from the injuries of the weather,
for Certainly it's more than a phantasy to say, it's convenient that when the worshippers meet together for worship, they should have a capacious house to meet in, to shelter them from the injuries of the weather,
or it's more than bare fancy to say, its convenient that the Preacher should stand above the people, both to ease him of the inconveniency of the croud,
or it's more than bore fancy to say, its convenient that the Preacher should stand above the people, both to ease him of the inconveniency of the crowd,
how can the Lords supper be conveniently administred without a Table to put the Bread and the VVine upon? but as for your Ceremonies, there is no necessity at all of them,
how can the lords supper be conveniently administered without a Table to put the Bred and the VVine upon? but as for your Ceremonies, there is no necessity At all of them,
a thing is then Religiously used, not barely when I use it in worship, (for so I use my Cloak and band in worship which yet I used not Religiously) but to use a thing in worship religiously, is when I use it for religious ends,
a thing is then Religiously used, not barely when I use it in worship, (for so I use my Cloak and band in worship which yet I used not Religiously) but to use a thing in worship religiously, is when I use it for religious ends,
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now when we meet in a Church, or stand in a Pulpit, or cat the Lords Supper on the Table, we do not think that there is any thing in those places that render us or our worship any whit the more pleasing to God;
now when we meet in a Church, or stand in a Pulpit, or cat the lords Supper on the Table, we do not think that there is any thing in those places that render us or our worship any whit the more pleasing to God;
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or in case of necessity by reason of persecution, did eat the Lords Supper upon the grasse, provided we did all in Spirit and Truth, our services were every whit as acceptable as in, from, or on the other places;
or in case of necessity by reason of persecution, did eat the lords Supper upon the grass, provided we did all in Spirit and Truth, our services were every whit as acceptable as in, from, or on the other places;
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if you do, then you fall under the like reproof of God to David, when did god bid you do such things? or when did he tell you that then he was pleased with them? if not, they are altogether impertinent and uselesse,
if you do, then you fallen under the like reproof of God to David, when did god bid you do such things? or when did he tell you that then he was pleased with them? if not, they Are altogether impertinent and useless,
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as to the other things instanced in, as dividing the Scriptures into Chapters, and giving the Contents thereof, to that I say though there is not a particular expresse command for it,
as to the other things instanced in, as dividing the Scriptures into Chapters, and giving the Contents thereof, to that I say though there is not a particular express command for it,
and such addition now named, with the giving of the Contents of each part, any Minister of the Gospel hath a warrant to do by virtue of the said general command given to Ministers;
and such addition now nam, with the giving of the Contents of each part, any Minister of the Gospel hath a warrant to do by virtue of the said general command given to Ministers;
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and upon this account those that did divide them, did well and warrantably, for it is one of the commanded works of Ministers, to divide the Word aright.
and upon this account those that did divide them, did well and warrantably, for it is one of the commanded works of Ministers, to divide the Word aright.
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so then there is nothing done by digesting Davids words into Meeter, but only a putting them into a posture fit for to be sung, which the Nature of that duty makes necessary, and therefore gives warrant thereto.
so then there is nothing done by digesting Davids words into Meeter, but only a putting them into a posture fit for to be sung, which the Nature of that duty makes necessary, and Therefore gives warrant thereto.
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I Answer, first by concession it is true, were they lawful to be done, I cannot say that the command would alter the nature of these things to make them unlawful,
I Answer, First by concession it is true, were they lawful to be done, I cannot say that the command would altar the nature of these things to make them unlawful,
and secondly, if the imposer injoyns those little and suppose lawful things under severe penalties, such as deprivation, excommunication, banishment, &c. in the one he sins as a usurper of Christs Authority, in the other as cruel;
and secondly, if the imposer enjoins those little and suppose lawful things under severe penalties, such as deprivation, excommunication, banishment, etc. in the one he Sins as a usurper of Christ authority, in the other as cruel;
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and upon this account I say, he sins, inasmuch as he transgresseth that Command of Christ, Let no man be called Master or Father, that is let none be owned as your Master or Father, in these matters of Faith and VVorship, for in such matters ye have but one Master even Christ, Math. 23.8.10.
and upon this account I say, he Sins, inasmuch as he Transgresseth that Command of christ, Let no man be called Master or Father, that is let none be owned as your Master or Father, in these matters of Faith and VVorship, for in such matters you have but one Master even christ, Math. 23.8.10.
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Thus I have said what I conceive is a sufficient answer to your first charge when you say, that our separation upon the account of unscriptural Ceremonies imposed, is not sufficient to excuse us from Schisme.
Thus I have said what I conceive is a sufficient answer to your First charge when you say, that our separation upon the account of unscriptural Ceremonies imposed, is not sufficient to excuse us from Schism.
Secondly he saith, That the Church requiring from us any doubtful or suspected practices, as Conditions of her Communion, is not a just cause of Separation.
Secondly he Says, That the Church requiring from us any doubtful or suspected practices, as Conditions of her Communion, is not a just cause of Separation.
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I have proved the falshood of this Proposition already, from the testimonies of the Apostle Paul, who is a far bettter Casuist than the Author, who hath declared that Christians are under the Obligations of obeying the dictates of their Consciences,
I have proved the falsehood of this Proposition already, from the testimonies of the Apostle Paul, who is a Far better Casuist than the Author, who hath declared that Christians Are under the Obligations of obeying the dictates of their Consciences,
And besides I have given you in the testimony of Mr. Hales, and the reasons of Dr. Stillingfleet against this position of the Authour, which I think will be long enough before he solidly answer.
And beside I have given you in the testimony of Mr. Hales, and the Reasons of Dr. Stillingfleet against this position of the Author, which I think will be long enough before he solidly answer.
But because the Authour of this Proposition doth essay to give a reason of what he here asserts, I shall not be so uncivil as not to take notice thereof,
But Because the Author of this Proposition does essay to give a reason of what he Here asserts, I shall not be so Uncivil as not to take notice thereof,
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so that if we will follow the surer side, as all Christians in these cases are bound to do, we must continue our obedience to the Church, notwithstanding we suspect or doubt of the lawfulness of her commands, Thus far he —
so that if we will follow the Surer side, as all Christians in these cases Are bound to do, we must continue our Obedience to the Church, notwithstanding we suspect or doubt of the lawfulness of her commands, Thus Far he —
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for ex vero nihil sequi potest nisi verum, for the rule there laid down of always obeying the Church Rulers, where the Conscience is in doubt, is in many instances a ready way to involve many a weak Conscience in damnable guilt.
for ex vero nihil sequi potest nisi verum, for the Rule there laid down of always obeying the Church Rulers, where the Conscience is in doubt, is in many instances a ready Way to involve many a weak Conscience in damnable guilt.
as it seems there were, who halted betwixt the VVorship of Jehovah and Baal; suppose yet a little further, that the Consciences thus doubting were rather inclined to believe Jehovah the true God,
as it seems there were, who halted betwixt the VVorship of Jehovah and Baal; suppose yet a little further, that the Consciences thus doubting were rather inclined to believe Jehovah the true God,
what say you now? what Councel would you have given such an one, if he had askt your advice? do but look how ill-favouredly such an answer as this would seem;
what say you now? what Council would you have given such an one, if he had asked your Advice? do but look how ill-favoredly such an answer as this would seem;
my advice therefore is this, that since your Rulers have commanded you to worship that Devil, I Counsel you so to do, till your Conscience be better resolved;
my Advice Therefore is this, that since your Rulers have commanded you to worship that devil, I Counsel you so to do, till your Conscience be better resolved;
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according to you, he must go against the inclination of his doubting, Conscience in disowning and rejecting Christ that he might yeild obedience to his Rulers, who command, him so to do;
according to you, he must go against the inclination of his doubting, Conscience in disowning and rejecting christ that he might yield Obedience to his Rulers, who command, him so to do;
in like manner, if a poor man were inclined to believe the Masse Idolatry, he must go on in that sin against his doubting Conscience till he comes to be as certain it is Idolatry,
in like manner, if a poor man were inclined to believe the Mass Idolatry, he must go on in that since against his doubting Conscience till he comes to be as certain it is Idolatry,
and now to shew you where it lies, give me leave to tell you, it lies in your arguing from particulars to an Universal, vel a dicto secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter.
and now to show you where it lies, give me leave to tell you, it lies in your arguing from particulars to an Universal, vel a Dicto secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter.
But this you can never do, for upon those very arguments, upon which I suspect the sinfulnesse of the Command, upon the same Arguments I suspect whether God hath given them Authority to Command,
But this you can never do, for upon those very Arguments, upon which I suspect the sinfulness of the Command, upon the same Arguments I suspect whither God hath given them authority to Command,
I have made the contrary appear, by shewing that a man can never be sure that God hath Commanded him to obey his Rulers in such cases where he suspects they Command him to sin.
I have made the contrary appear, by showing that a man can never be sure that God hath Commanded him to obey his Rulers in such cases where he suspects they Command him to since.
Thus is the strength of this Argument, and so the strength of his second (Charged upon the Nonconformists) broken, wherein he hath been endeavouring to prove, they have no just Cause of Separation,
Thus is the strength of this Argument, and so the strength of his second (Charged upon the nonconformists) broken, wherein he hath been endeavouring to prove, they have no just Cause of Separation,
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I Answer, First, I would fain know what kind of Errours of Doctrines, or Corruptions of Practice, you do here mean? for they are of divers sorts and kinds,
I Answer, First, I would fain know what kind of Errors of Doctrines, or Corruptions of Practice, you do Here mean? for they Are of diverse sorts and Kinds,
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or such that touch not upon the Fundamentals of the Christian Doctrine; some such were those in the Apostles days, that related to the Abstaining from meats, and observation of days;
or such that touch not upon the Fundamentals of the Christian Doctrine; Some such were those in the Apostles days, that related to the Abstaining from Meats, and observation of days;
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in such cases doubtlesse Christians ought without imposing to bear with one another, and to continue Communion with each other, notwithstanding such differences, which was the Apostles counsel in that case;
in such cases doubtless Christians ought without imposing to bear with one Another, and to continue Communion with each other, notwithstanding such differences, which was the Apostles counsel in that case;
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Or if by Corruptions in Practice, you should mean such infirmities, that all Members of Churches are subject to more or lesse, (for who can say, that he is without sin?) in this sence you are right;
Or if by Corruptions in Practice, you should mean such infirmities, that all Members of Churches Are Subject to more or less, (for who can say, that he is without since?) in this sense you Are right;
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or should prove Common Drunkards, or Whore-mongers, or Opposers, &c. and being admonished thereof, should deride the admonition as Precise, and fanatical:
or should prove Common Drunkards, or Whoremongers, or Opposers, etc. and being admonished thereof, should deride the admonition as Precise, and fanatical:
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I say again, it is a sufficient ground for the sound Members to withdraw (especially if a more pure Church may be had) yea though neither these errours or practices are imposed;
I say again, it is a sufficient ground for the found Members to withdraw (especially if a more pure Church may be had) yea though neither these errors or practices Are imposed;
and therefore they cannot but be in apparent danger by Communicating with such, and certainly in so doing, there is nothing done contrary to the Fundamental reason of Christs Instituting discipline in his Church, which as I conceive was for the Cure of the unsound,
and Therefore they cannot but be in apparent danger by Communicating with such, and Certainly in so doing, there is nothing done contrary to the Fundamental reason of Christ Instituting discipline in his Church, which as I conceive was for the Cure of the unsound,
Now if no care be taken for the cure of the same, but that infectious Crew is kept in the Church to the palpable endangering of the sound, it is apparent that the Foundations of discipline are rooted up,
Now if no care be taken for the cure of the same, but that infectious Crew is kept in the Church to the palpable endangering of the found, it is apparent that the Foundations of discipline Are rooted up,
I Answer, Methinks by this generall way of Expressing your self, that you are not afraid of your Readers understanding this Proposition without any Limitation.
I Answer, Methinks by this general Way of Expressing your self, that you Are not afraid of your Readers understanding this Proposition without any Limitation.
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and a great body of the People, and that they should only tollerate them, but not impose them on any, what hinders (if what you here say be true) but that every sound Christian may,
and a great body of the People, and that they should only tolerate them, but not impose them on any, what hinders (if what you Here say be true) but that every found Christian may,
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I would not be so unmerciful to charge you as holding this, but this I say, that so much seems to follow Clearly from this your Position, if taken without any Limitation;
I would not be so unmerciful to charge you as holding this, but this I say, that so much seems to follow Clearly from this your Position, if taken without any Limitation;
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I Answer, It is true, you say there, that the great and general Corruption of the Church of Rome, both in Doctrine and Practice, doth endanger the Salvation of such as Communicate with her;
I Answer, It is true, you say there, that the great and general Corruption of the Church of Rome, both in Doctrine and Practice, does endanger the Salvation of such as Communicate with her;
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and Corruptions in Practice, (so long as they are only suffered, but not imposed) cannot be a sufficient Cause of separation? but if you are there to be understood in the latter sence, that is to say, that the Errours and Corruptions of the Church of Rome, only as imposed are so dangerous to mens salvation, as to warrant a separation;
and Corruptions in Practice, (so long as they Are only suffered, but not imposed) cannot be a sufficient Cause of separation? but if you Are there to be understood in the latter sense, that is to say, that the Errors and Corruptions of the Church of Rome, only as imposed Are so dangerous to men's salvation, as to warrant a separation;
that Christians may Lawfully here be Baptized, go to Mass with the Church of Rome: Provided they were not forced to make a Profession of believing their Errors,
that Christians may Lawfully Here be Baptised, go to Mass with the Church of Rome: Provided they were not forced to make a Profession of believing their Errors,
for Peace sake, use all the Popish Ceremonies of Cream and Spittle in Baptisme, as well as the sign of the Cross, provided his Rulers did impose them,
for Peace sake, use all the Popish Ceremonies of Cream and Spittle in Baptism, as well as the Signen of the Cross, provided his Rulers did impose them,
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and what wonder is it, if there be of such perswasions among you, when it is evident, that there are not a few of your Church, whose Ambition it seems to be, to run as nigh to the Romish Rights, as they may be suffered;
and what wonder is it, if there be of such persuasions among you, when it is evident, that there Are not a few of your Church, whose Ambition it seems to be, to run as High to the Romish Rights, as they may be suffered;
But I know he will say, all this is nothing to our present case, for there are no such errours or idolatrous Practices in the Church of England, and therefore cannot be pleaded as a cause of our separation.
But I know he will say, all this is nothing to our present case, for there Are no such errors or idolatrous Practices in the Church of England, and Therefore cannot be pleaded as a cause of our separation.
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and a certain form of Service and Discipline which Christ never Commanded, and without which many of Christs Churches have and do subsist and flourish, to say no more, I wonder then, by what Gospell Rule you presume to constitute a Church only of such,
and a certain from of Service and Discipline which christ never Commanded, and without which many of Christ Churches have and do subsist and flourish, to say no more, I wonder then, by what Gospel Rule you presume to constitute a Church only of such,
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But what if a Consistory concludes of the 39. Articles, and the Preachers when all is done preach the quite contrary in several weighty points (As it is conceived many of yours do) and these are not only tollerated but encouraged by preferments,
But what if a Consistory concludes of the 39. Articles, and the Preachers when all is done preach thee quite contrary in several weighty points (As it is conceived many of yours doe) and these Are not only tolerated but encouraged by preferments,
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But I wonder how these Articles may be called your Doctrines, if but for fear, your Ministers or People shall believe them, according to the true intent and meaning of the Compilers.
But I wonder how these Articles may be called your Doctrines, if but for Fear, your Ministers or People shall believe them, according to the true intent and meaning of the Compilers.
when such corrupt Teachers shall be imposed on them, if they are bound (for fear of Schisme) to sit under their corrupt Doctrines to the endangering of their Faith,
when such corrupt Teachers shall be imposed on them, if they Are bound (for Fear of Schism) to fit under their corrupt Doctrines to the endangering of their Faith,
whether the Law of a Land, or the security of my Faith (and consequently my Salvation) ought more to be regarded? which I think is very easy to determine.
whither the Law of a Land, or the security of my Faith (and consequently my Salvation) ought more to be regarded? which I think is very easy to determine.
though I do not charge the Church of England with any such errors, nor had I ground, provided her Ministers did honestly believe those Articles that they have professed to believe;
though I do not charge the Church of England with any such errors, nor had I ground, provided her Ministers did honestly believe those Articles that they have professed to believe;
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So that what as to this point I have said, is pleadable only by such private Christians whose lot it is to fall under the Teaching of such Conformists, who are such Non-conformists to the Doctrines of the Church of England, as that they dare deride some sober Christians under the notion of being acquainted with the Person of Christ,
So that what as to this point I have said, is pleadable only by such private Christians whose lot it is to fallen under the Teaching of such Conformists, who Are such nonconformists to the Doctrines of the Church of England, as that they Dare deride Some Sobrium Christians under the notion of being acquainted with the Person of christ,
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so that men are left in the working out of their Salvation, to their Bibles and the use of their natural Faculties, exclusive of any other operation of the Spirit;
so that men Are left in the working out of their Salvation, to their Bibles and the use of their natural Faculties, exclusive of any other operation of the Spirit;
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and thus much shall suffice to be said concerning your Doctrines, and of the lawfulness of separating from some of the particular Congregations, in case the Teachers do grossely pervert Some of the weighty Doctrines of your own Church.
and thus much shall suffice to be said Concerning your Doctrines, and of the lawfulness of separating from Some of the particular Congregations, in case the Teachers do grossly pervert some of the weighty Doctrines of your own Church.
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I Answer, first, if all the corrupt practices in your Church were only tollerated but not imposed, you would have much more reason of your side against us,
I Answer, First, if all the corrupt practices in your Church were only tolerated but not imposed, you would have much more reason of your side against us,
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and we cannot, must not, have Communion with you except we comply therein, so that should it be yielded, that unimposed corruption in a Church, is no just ground of separation,
and we cannot, must not, have Communion with you except we comply therein, so that should it be yielded, that unimposed corruption in a Church, is no just ground of separation,
But to come close to the case as it stands related to this Proposition, suppose no imposition of any of those things that are in controversie between us;
But to come close to the case as it Stands related to this Proposition, suppose no imposition of any of those things that Are in controversy between us;
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what will follow, but first that all the Ministers of Christ in England, would be capable of places? for they are Impositions that are the principal reasons why they are kept out.
what will follow, but First that all the Ministers of christ in England, would be capable of places? for they Are Impositions that Are the principal Reasons why they Are kept out.
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and as for other Ministers they might freely exercise their Ministry without Liturgy or Ceremonies, and might exercise Discipline toward their rerespective Members according to Christ's direction in the case.
and as for other Ministers they might freely exercise their Ministry without Liturgy or Ceremonies, and might exercise Discipline towards their rerespective Members according to Christ's direction in the case.
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I say he might first, because were ther is no imposition, ther can be no law of Superiors binding him to a Communion with such a conceived corrupt Church:
I say he might First, Because were there is no imposition, there can be no law of Superiors binding him to a Communion with such a conceived corrupt Church:
But certainly, if a Trade might be as well managed with sober men, and that Meat may be had in better Company, it would be sinful then to Trade and Eat with such;
But Certainly, if a Trade might be as well managed with Sobrium men, and that Meat may be had in better Company, it would be sinful then to Trade and Eat with such;
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I may not neglect the preservation of my life by eating, nor geting a lively hood by trading, which is ordinarily necessary to the preservation of my life,
I may not neglect the preservation of my life by eating, nor getting a lively hood by trading, which is ordinarily necessary to the preservation of my life,
& present being, A meer occasion of hardning others in sin, or scandalizing weak Brethren; but when no such necessity doth lye on me, then the preventing of a scandal,
& present being, A mere occasion of hardening Others in since, or scandalizing weak Brothers; but when not such necessity does lie on me, then the preventing of a scandal,
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or giving occasion to the hardning others in the their sin, and the safety of my self from their contagion, are reasons of force to bind me from such Societies.
or giving occasion to the hardening Others in thee their since, and the safety of my self from their contagion, Are Reasons of force to bind me from such Societies.
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then it is a Duty to withdraw, to prevent scandals, and hardning a Church in its Corruptions, together with the preservation of themselves from the danger of being infected with those Corruption, which are reasons of another nature,
then it is a Duty to withdraw, to prevent scandals, and hardening a Church in its Corruptions, together with the preservation of themselves from the danger of being infected with those Corruption, which Are Reasons of Another nature,
That the enjoying of a more profitable Ministry, or living under a more pure Discipline in an other Church, is no just Cause of forsaking the Communion of that whereof we are members.
That the enjoying of a more profitable Ministry, or living under a more pure Discipline in an other Church, is no just Cause of forsaking the Communion of that whereof we Are members.
So that if Christians do shift particular Churches for the obtaining of very apparent advantages to their Salvation, above what they could have had where they were, I see therein no crime at all committed,
So that if Christians do shift particular Churches for the obtaining of very apparent advantages to their Salvation, above what they could have had where they were, I see therein no crime At all committed,
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Sure I am, that very many Souls, that have for many years lain Blind and Dead in trespasses, under their Parish Ministers. (I speak not partially as to those only that are now in place,
Sure I am, that very many Souls, that have for many Years lain Blind and Dead in Trespasses, under their Parish Ministers. (I speak not partially as to those only that Are now in place,
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who think you, will stand upon such a Nicety, if he yet believes him exceeding skillfull and successefull in the cure of such distempers under which he groaneth? and certainly when you have writ your self a weary to prove the contrary,
who think you, will stand upon such a Nicety, if he yet believes him exceeding skilful and successful in the cure of such distempers under which he Groaneth? and Certainly when you have writ your self a weary to prove the contrary,
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yet men herein will follow the Conduct of their Reason, and the instinct of Self-Preservation: which is not only seen verified among the Non-conformists, but among your selves.
yet men herein will follow the Conduct of their Reason, and the instinct of Self-Preservation: which is not only seen verified among the nonconformists, but among your selves.
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The next thing to be examined is, that which you have said concerning the unlawfullness of for saking one Church, to enjoy a more pure Discipline in an other.
The next thing to be examined is, that which you have said Concerning the unlawfulness of for saking one Church, to enjoy a more pure Discipline in an other.
for thereby is there a means provided to inform the ignorantly sinning members, to correct the Wilfull, to reclaim Apostates, to establish and confirm the sound, that their Souls may be saved in the day of the Lord Christ.
for thereby is there a means provided to inform the ignorantly sinning members, to correct the Wilful, to reclaim Apostates, to establish and confirm the found, that their Souls may be saved in the day of the Lord christ.
And therefore if Christians withdraw from such a Church where this Discipline is next to wholly neglected, to joyn with another where it is exercised to the great advantage of its members;
And Therefore if Christians withdraw from such a Church where this Discipline is next to wholly neglected, to join with Another where it is exercised to the great advantage of its members;
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May Parents Lawfully Change a School for their Children, where the Schollars by connivance, are suffered to Curse and Swear, &c. and yet are kept in the School, especially if great Mens Children:
May Parents Lawfully Change a School for their Children, where the Scholars by connivance, Are suffered to Curse and Swear, etc. and yet Are kept in the School, especially if great Men's Children:
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and yet be blameless? I wonder then why it should be so Criminal for a Christian to remove from such a Church, where such sins are in like manner tollerated;
and yet be blameless? I wonder then why it should be so Criminal for a Christian to remove from such a Church, where such Sins Are in like manner tolerated;
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When Christ sent the first Preachers of the Gospell, to Discipline Nations, and gather to him Churches, he did not direct them first to ask the Governours of those Nations leave so to do:
When christ sent the First Preachers of the Gospel, to Discipline nations, and gather to him Churches, he did not Direct them First to ask the Governors of those nations leave so to do:
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Thus have I answered this Fourth position of yours, and have shewed how far an unprofitable Ministry and Corrupt Discipline in your Church, gives ground of separation from you. His Fifth and Last Proposition.
Thus have I answered this Fourth position of yours, and have showed how Far an unprofitable Ministry and Corrupt Discipline in your Church, gives ground of separation from you. His Fifth and Last Proposition.
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But for the Ministers of Christ not to go on in their Ministeriall work, and for the People not to enjoy all ordinances, is to neglect known duties, in some things only,
But for the Ministers of christ not to go on in their Ministerial work, and for the People not to enjoy all ordinances, is to neglect known duties, in Some things only,
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I may very well doubt whether this proposition be universally true, when this very Author, himself grants it is not, For if a Church be so greatly and generally Corrupt in Doctrine and Practice,
I may very well doubt whither this proposition be universally true, when this very Author, himself grants it is not, For if a Church be so greatly and generally Corrupt in Doctrine and Practice,
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Thus he hath provided wisely good shelter for himself & his, from the first charge of his proposition with respect to the Church of Rome, whilest he hath left the poor Non-conformists to shift as they can with respect to their own Church;
Thus he hath provided wisely good shelter for himself & his, from the First charge of his proposition with respect to the Church of Rome, whilst he hath left the poor nonconformists to shift as they can with respect to their own Church;
If they should not separate as they do, I say then, These outed Ministers (do not wonder) if they conceive it is by reason of the corruptions, that many hundreds of them have been cast out and silenced as much as in them lies:
If they should not separate as they do, I say then, These outed Ministers (do not wonder) if they conceive it is by reason of the corruptions, that many hundreds of them have been cast out and silenced as much as in them lies:
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and why? because they will not swear and forswear, assent and consent to all that they would have them, by reason whereof they are reduced to these straits, either to swear and do as you would have them, and that against their Consciences:
and why? Because they will not swear and forswear, assent and consent to all that they would have them, by reason whereof they Are reduced to these straits, either to swear and do as you would have them, and that against their Consciences:
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and forsake the work of the Ministry, which their Lord has intrusted them with: if they do the former, they like wicked Hypocrites will go against their own Consciences,
and forsake the work of the Ministry, which their Lord has Entrusted them with: if they do the former, they like wicked Hypocrites will go against their own Consciences,
and so will indanger their Salvation, or else like false and treacherous Stewards, must desert their masters work and so incurre the doom of such Stewards;
and so will endanger their Salvation, or Else like false and treacherous Stewards, must desert their Masters work and so incur the doom of such Stewards;
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what then is left for them to do but to go on in their work as now they do for their own safety, that is to Preach, Teach, Father and Rule his People, which you are pleased to call the erecting of new Churches, which (as I said) is no more than to do the duty of Christs Ministers,
what then is left for them to do but to go on in their work as now they do for their own safety, that is to Preach, Teach, Father and Rule his People, which you Are pleased to call the erecting of new Churches, which (as I said) is no more than to do the duty of Christ Ministers,
without imposed Forms of Prayer, or without the use of any superstitiously imposed vestments, or when they meet, to Administer Sacraments without any impertinent superstitious use of the sign of the Crosse,
without imposed Forms of Prayer, or without the use of any superstitiously imposed vestments, or when they meet, to Administer Sacraments without any impertinent superstitious use of the Signen of the Cross,
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or such Churches that are governed by Christs Officers, (and such Presbyters unquestionably are) not by lay Chancellors, unheard of in the first Churches, where nothing is imposed on the Members,
or such Churches that Are governed by Christ Officers, (and such Presbyters unquestionably Are) not by lay Chancellors, unheard of in the First Churches, where nothing is imposed on the Members,
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But where the transgression of a Ceremonious law, or a Tradition of the Elders, is dealt with as a sin unpardonable, fines, imprisonments, silencing, banishments, Excommunications are punishments all thought little enough for so great a scandal.
But where the Transgression of a Ceremonious law, or a Tradition of the Elders, is dealt with as a since unpardonable, fines, imprisonments, silencing, banishments, Excommunications Are punishments all Thought little enough for so great a scandal.
but if you will drive us to such straits as that either we must wound our Consciences by a sinful compliance with you, at least, with such a compliance that we suspect sinful,
but if you will drive us to such straits as that either we must wound our Consciences by a sinful compliance with you, At least, with such a compliance that we suspect sinful,
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this I think is a sufficient answer to your fifth and last proposition, which being all you have said that directly concerns us, I shall take the boldness to conclude with your own words, I am verily perswaded that I have said nothing in this my reply,
this I think is a sufficient answer to your fifth and last proposition, which being all you have said that directly concerns us, I shall take the boldness to conclude with your own words, I am verily persuaded that I have said nothing in this my reply,
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