A reioynder to Doctor Hil concerning the descense of Christ into Hell Wherein the answere to his sermon is iustlie defended, and the roust of his reply scraped from those arguments as cleanlie, as if they had neuer bene touched with that canker. By Alexander Hume, Maister of Artes. Heere, besides the reioynder, thou hast his paralogismes: that is, his fallacies and deceits in reason pointed out, and numbered in the margin: amounting to the nomber of 600. and aboue: and yet not half reckoned.
Another. There Christ redeemed vs where hee paide the ransome of our redemption: But hee paide not the ransome of our redemption in the hell of the damned, and Iosephs tombe.
another. There christ redeemed us where he paid the ransom of our redemption: But he paid not the ransom of our redemption in the hell of the damned, and Joseph's tomb.
Heer be three reasons in mood and figure, against your comfortable doctrine, which when you haue answered, I will bring a whole armie of such mighty souldiers, (for the scriptures haue enough such) to turne your comfort into murning,
Her be three Reasons in mood and figure, against your comfortable Doctrine, which when you have answered, I will bring a Whole army of such mighty Soldiers, (for the Scriptures have enough such) to turn your Comfort into murning,
It is the manner of politick men, that would faine hinder a thing, that reason doeth further, to set feare of sequels against the force of known reason.
It is the manner of politic men, that would feign hinder a thing, that reason doth further, to Set Fear of sequels against the force of known reason.
Secondlie, I alledged Syra, 17. 21. To proue, that this phrase, (the nethermost parts of the earth) doth signifie hell, to this you haue in like manner saide nothing.
Secondly, I alleged Syria, 17. 21. To prove, that this phrase, (the nethermost parts of the earth) does signify hell, to this you have in like manner said nothing.
I alleadged Ezechiel to proue that point also 31. chapter. 5. 16. 17. 18. 19. In answering to that place, you haue gain-saide •zechiel, Esay in his 14. chapter Lavaterus, Munster, and Pellicane. Now,
I alleged Ezechiel to prove that point also 31. chapter. 5. 16. 17. 18. 19. In answering to that place, you have gainsaid •zechiel, Isaiah in his 14. chapter Lavaterus, Munster, and Pelican. Now,
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Then I alleadged the known place of Peter, you travailed much about this place, yet in your interpretation of this word pneumasi, that is (spirits) which you interprete the soules of the men that liued in Noahs time, you contradict the words of our Saviour, Luk 24 39. For Christ saieth, a Spirit hath not fleshe and bones, as you see me haue.
Then I alleged the known place of Peter, you travailed much about this place, yet in your Interpretation of this word pneumasi, that is (spirits) which you interpret the Souls of the men that lived in Noahs time, you contradict the words of our Saviour, Luk 24 39. For christ Saith, a Spirit hath not Flesh and bones, as you see me have.
The God of patience and consolation, giue vs grace, that we may be like minded one towards another according to Christ Iesus, that we may with one minde,
The God of patience and consolation, give us grace, that we may be like minded one towards Another according to christ Iesus, that we may with one mind,
Wherefore, seeing your argument drawne from the Act. 2. is answered sect. 4. and sect. 7. And seeing your place out of Syrach is 7. waies defaced sect. 11. And seeing I haue proued my consent with the Scriptures in euerie place, where I met with that accusation.
Wherefore, seeing your argument drawn from the Act. 2. is answered sect. 4. and sect. 7. And seeing your place out of Sirach is 7. ways defaced sect. 11. And seeing I have proved my consent with the Scriptures in every place, where I met with that accusation.
And seeing our sense of the 16. Psalm, agreeth with Peter as wel as yours, sect. 7. And seeing in my answere to Psal. 63. I dissent neither from David nor Calvine, sect 8. And seeing in my answere to the place of Ezechiel, I dissent neither from him nor Esay, sect. 9. And seeing I haue proued by the worde (spirit) that men living in the fleshe are not signified sect. 12. And seeing now I haue set down your words according to your owne request:
And seeing our sense of the 16. Psalm, agreeth with Peter as well as yours, sect. 7. And seeing in my answer to Psalm 63. I dissent neither from David nor Calvin, sect 8. And seeing in my answer to the place of Ezechiel, I dissent neither from him nor Isaiah, sect. 9. And seeing I have proved by the word (Spirit) that men living in the Flesh Are not signified sect. 12. And seeing now I have Set down your words according to your own request:
I hope now you are satisfied, and that you will satisfie me, and the populous congregation, to whome you made your solemne promise of recantation in the pulpite at Chippenhame.
I hope now you Are satisfied, and that you will satisfy me, and the populous congregation, to whom you made your solemn promise of recantation in the pulpit At Chippenhame.
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ANd heere to end, as if M. D. had set the bent of his wit to shewe the vanitie of his worke, he maketh the vainest bragge, that euer grewe in a vaine heade.
ANd Here to end, as if M. D. had Set the bent of his wit to show the vanity of his work, he makes the vainest brag, that ever grew in a vain head.
Amongest manie filthie, and vaine workes, he wrote a book entituled Metamorphosis. In it he sets the edge of all his wits (which he had as sharp as euer had anie Poet) to the painting of lies in all coloures wherein he shot so neare the marke, that in comparison of it, the lying legend commes not neere the whetstone, by as manie myles as there be wordes in them both.
Amongst many filthy, and vain works, he wrote a book entitled Metamorphosis. In it he sets the edge of all his wits (which he had as sharp as ever had any Poet) to the painting of lies in all colours wherein he shot so near the mark, that in comparison of it, the lying legend comes not near the whetstone, by as many miles as there be words in them both.
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In which Ovid looking back into the worke of his owne wit, grew into such loue with the finenesse of his owne conceits, that he doubted not to de•ie his owne imagined God Iuppiter. Now, that thou mightest see (gentle reader) that M. Doctor did thinke of his owne worke,
In which Ovid looking back into the work of his own wit, grew into such love with the fineness of his own conceits, that he doubted not to de•ie his own imagined God Jupiter. Now, that thou Mightest see (gentle reader) that M. Doctor did think of his own work,
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That they that vnderstand not the latine, may vnderstand it, I haue thought not amisse to englishe it as neere the words as I can keeping the english meeter.
That they that understand not the latin, may understand it, I have Thought not amiss to english it as near the words as I can keeping the english meeter.
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That is, What hath this vaunting bragger done Worth gaping mouth and lips so wide: The groning Hill is brought a bed And out a sillie mous doth slide. Huic latino carmine sic respondero. Nondum est exactum:
That is, What hath this vaunting bragger done Worth gaping Mouth and lips so wide: The groaning Hill is brought a Bed And out a silly mous does slide. Huic latino carmine sic respondero. Nondum est exactum:
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ludit tua gloria ventos, Ad sat a licta redi ▪ I am renovatur opus. In cineres ▪ fumosque tui rediere labores, Quod louis ignis agit, quod Iovis irae facit. Aliud. Dicere sibellum mireris tartara coelo:
Ludit tua gloria ventos, Ad sat a licta redi ▪ I am renovatur opus. In cineres ▪ fumosque tui rediere labores, Quod louis ignis agit, quod Jovis irae facit. Aliud. Dicere sibellum mireris Tartarus coelo:
Complexus vano nugas, tricasque libello Provocat insanus tela, manumque Iovis. Errat: fi tutum Iovis ira acheronta putarit, Non coquit aeternis iguibus ille stygem? FINIS.
Complexus vano Nugas, tricasque Little book Provocat insanus Tela, manumque Jovis. Errat: Fi tutum Jovis ira acheronta putarit, Non coquit Eternal iguibus Isle stygem? FINIS.
CERTAINE PLACES QVOted out of Master Doctors owne Authours, vpon the three principal places, where-upon he buildeth this his opinion, wherein thou maist see gentle Reader,
CERTAIN PLACES QVOted out of Master Doctors own Authors, upon the three principal places, whereupon he builds this his opinion, wherein thou Mayest see gentle Reader,
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I leaning altogether on the word of trueth, haue not q••ted them in the treatise it selfe, counting them vnsufficient witnesses in such a cause, wherein they haue neither reveil•d,
I leaning altogether on the word of truth, have not q••ted them in the treatise it self, counting them unsufficient Witnesses in such a cause, wherein they have neither reveil•d,
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The first place is, thou vvouldest not leaue my soule in 〈 ◊ 〉 nor suffer thy holy one to see corruption, vvhere M. D•ct•r takes 〈 ◊ 〉 to be hell, vve the generall condition of them vvhich are departed this life.
The First place is, thou Wouldst not leave my soul in 〈 ◊ 〉 nor suffer thy holy one to see corruption, where M. D•ct•r Takes 〈 ◊ 〉 to be hell, we the general condition of them which Are departed this life.
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Felinu, non deseres ammam me•̄sepu••hro, id est, non destitues me, vt anima mea morti concedat. Per she•l enim quod sepulchrum significat (vt in Psal 6. vers 6. d.
Felinu, non deseres ammam me•̄sepu••hro, id est, non destitues me, vt anima mea morti concedat. Per she•l enim quod Sepulchre significat (vt in Psalm 6. vers 6. worser.
Muse Ius, non derelinques animam meam in sepulchro, nec dabi• sa•ctum tuum videre corruptionem, quasi dicat, tam certus sum ma•surum me perpetuo, vt vbi etiam mortuus fuero, in m•rteta. men detineri nequeam: ideo quod, &c. Hemingius:
Muse Just, non derelinques animam meam in Sepulchro, nec dabi• sa•ctum tuum To see corruptionem, quasi dicat, tam Certus sum ma•surum me perpetuo, vt vbi etiam Mortuus fuero, in m•rteta. men detineri nequeam: ideo quod, etc. hemingius:
Christus non solum pro nobis mortuus est ▪ sed etiam voluit pro nobis al• quantisper ▪ id est, vs { que } in tertium diē descendere ad tenebras tartareas, vbi est imago mortis,
Christus non solum Pro nobis Mortuus est ▪ sed etiam voluit Pro nobis al• quantisper ▪ id est, us { que } in Tertium diē descendere ad Darkness tartareas, vbi est imago mortis,
These be fiue of M. Doctors principall Authors, all agreeing vvith vs, and contrary to himselfe, these that follovve indeed dissent from vs ▪ and agree not vvith him on the meaning of this place.
These be fiue of M. Doctors principal Authors, all agreeing with us, and contrary to himself, these that follow indeed dissent from us ▪ and agree not with him on the meaning of this place.
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Veteres ex scripturis respondent diversa• ap•d inferos mansiones fuisse, beatasque animas à corpore separatas ante Christi ascensio•em, neque in terris mansisse, neque hinc ad superos in coelum migrasse, sed descendisse ad infernum ▪ & huic sententiae suffragetur Ecclesiae Ca•h•licae consensus, & accedat scripturae sacrae autoritas:
Veteres ex Scriptures respondent diversa• ap•d inferos Mansiones Fuisse, beatasque animas à corpore separatas ante Christ ascensio•em, neque in terris mansisse, neque hinc ad superos in coelum migrasse, said descendisse ad infernum ▪ & huic sententiae suffragetur Ecclesiae Ca•h•licae consensus, & Accedat Scriptures Sacrae autoritas:
retineb• hanc sententiam donec certior scripturae interpretatio adferatur, & haec manifestis scripturae testimonijs confuretur. Peter Mar•yr in his common places holdeth the same in a manner.
retineb• hanc sententiam donec certior Scriptures Interpretation adferatur, & haec manifestis Scriptures testimonijs confuretur. Peter Mar•yr in his Common places holds the same in a manner.
Etenim fidelium spirituum ▪ q•i in loc• tranquillo quies••bant, qui sinus Abrahae apposite dicitur, vt cum sancto illo Patriarcha eadem fide praediti ex•ectarent salutem per Christum, qua ab Abrahamo denominabantur, spiritus inq•am 〈 ◊ 〉 magna consolatione exhilarati sunt, Egeruntque Deo optimo maximo gratias, &c. Lossius on this place saith.
Etenim Fidelium spirituum ▪ q•i in loc• tranquillo quies••bant, qui sinus Abraham apposite dicitur, vt cum sancto illo Patriarch Same fide praediti ex•ectarent salutem per Christ, qua ab Abrahamo denominabantur, spiritus inq•am 〈 ◊ 〉 Magna consolation exhilarati sunt, Egeruntque God optimo Maximo gratias, etc. Lossius on this place Says.
Christus ad inferos vere post mortem descendit, ne nos ad eos descendamus. 2. vt inde Patriarchas vt vetus credidit ecclesiae secum abduceret, cum quibus postea cum triumph• in co•lum ascendit.
Christus ad inferos vere post mortem descendit, ne nos ad eos Descendamus. 2. vt inde Patriarchas vt Vetus credidit ecclesiae secum abduceret, cum quibus postea cum triumph• in co•lum ascendit.
The second place is in the 4. Ephes. verse 9. but that he ascended, vvhat is it but that he first descēded into the lovvermost parts of the earth. Hemingius on this place saith.
The second place is in the 4. Ephesians verse 9. but that he ascended, what is it but that he First descended into the lovvermost parts of the earth. hemingius on this place Says.
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Musculus on this place bringeth two senses indifferently, the last accordeth with this. Potest exp•• deterra simpliciter cu•us partes sunt respectu coeli inferiores.
Musculus on this place brings two Senses indifferently, the last accords with this. Potest exp•• deterra simpliciter cu•us parts sunt respectu coeli inferiores.
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& quousque illi in partibus terrae cum vivendo, tum moriendo ad inferiora demissi sunt: covsque ipse sese demisit, quo nos ex inferioribus secum ad superiora, vnde descendit, subveheret.
& How Long illi in partibus terrae cum vivendo, tum moriendo ad Inferiora demissi sunt: covsque ipse seize Demised, quo nos ex inferioribus secum ad superiora, vnde descendit, subveheret.
Where hee diss•nteth also from this Doctor ho•ding that he never descended farther than the Sancts of God doth, whome he came to redeeme, which was not I trowe so farre as the damneds hell.
Where he diss•nteth also from this Doctor ho•ding that he never descended farther than the Sancts of God does, whom he Come to Redeem, which was not I trow so Far as the damneds hell.
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Pelicanus on this place saith, Ascendit redivivus in sublime secum ducens victoriae suae trophaeum captivoram gregem à peccati Diabolique tyrannide liberatum.
Pelican on this place Says, Ascendit redivivus in sublime secum ducens Victories suae trophaeum captivoram gregem à peccati Diabolic Tyrannide liberatum.
Here this most excellent man avoucheth ▪ that Christs blood was profitable to them in hel, which our Doctor date not •ay of the damned, howsoever Peter Martyr meant it.
Here this most excellent man avoucheth ▪ that Christ blood was profitable to them in hell, which our Doctor date not •ay of the damned, howsoever Peter Martyr meant it.
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& quickened in the spirit, in vvhich spirit, hee vvent and preached to the spirits sometime disobedient in the daies of Noah, &c. Hemingius on this place saith.
& quickened in the Spirit, in which Spirit, he went and preached to the spirits sometime disobedient in the days of Noah, etc. hemingius on this place Says.
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Aepinus vpon the 68. Psalme saith Petrus non meminit animae separatae à corpore sed illius spiritus, quo tempore Nohae increduli• praedicavit, nondum •ss•m ta hum•na carne,
Aepinus upon the 68. Psalm Says Peter non Meminit Spirits separatae à corpore sed Illius spiritus, quo tempore Nohae increduli• praedicavit, Nondum •ss•m ta hum•na Carnem,
Ideo car•em accipio libenter pro tota humana natura Christi, quā assumpsit in v••tatem personae. Contra ▪ viu••catus est Spiritu, hoc est secundum divinam naturam.
Ideo car•em accipio Libenter Pro tota Humana Nature Christ, quā assumpsit in v••tatem personae. Contra ▪ viu••catus est Spiritu, hoc est secundum divinam naturam.
Vitus Theodorus in the contents of the chapters of the first Epistle of Peter trans•ated into Latine by Selneccer one of Maister Doctors auth•rs saith Singul•ris haec est doctrina,
Vitus Theodorus in the contents of the Chapters of the First Epistle of Peter trans•ated into Latin by Selneccer one of Master Doctors auth•rs Says Singul•ris haec est Doctrina,
Our Doctor by s•irit vnderstandeth the huma•e soule of Christ, by the prison hell. This man (one of his owne authors) vnderstandeth by spirit the holy Ghost,
Our Doctor by s•irit understandeth the huma•e soul of christ, by the prison hell. This man (one of his own Authors) understandeth by Spirit the holy Ghost,
Thus thou maist see (gentle Reader) that these three places, on vvhich M. Doctor buildeth his opinion, his ovvne authors do interpret them some as vve do,
Thus thou Mayest see (gentle Reader) that these three places, on which M. Doctor builds his opinion, his own Authors do interpret them Some as we do,
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Erasmus in Catechesi saith, Ipsa inconcinnitas sermonis a•guit ab also quop•am intertextum Emblema ▪ & paulo post. An Thomas Aquinas addiderit subdubito.
Erasmus in Catechesi Says, Ipsa inconcinnitas Sermon a•guit ab also quop•am intertextum Emblema ▪ & Paul post. an Thomas Aquinas addiderit subdubito.
Et postea vetustissimi patres magna religione cavebant, ne quid asseverarent duntaxatin symbolo, quod non esset evidenter sacris literis vtriusque testamenti expressum.
Et postea vetustissimi patres Magna Religion cavebant, ne quid asseverarent duntaxatin symbolo, quod non esset Evidently sacris literis vtriusque Testamenti expressum.
Nihil istorum est, quod tergiversatorem cogat credere Christi animam per se descendisse ad tartarum. And againe, in his multa sunt, quae nihil habent ponderis:
Nihil These est, quod tergiversatorem cogat Believe Christ animam per se descendisse ad tartarum. And again, in his Multa sunt, Quae nihil habent ponderis:
At { que } hic habes articulum illum fidei, with many more wordes prooving that Christ hath wrought our deliverance by his death and not by descending into the hell of the damned.
At { que } hic habes Articulum Ilum fidei, with many more words proving that christ hath wrought our deliverance by his death and not by descending into the hell of the damned.
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Primo dignatus est Christus se nostri causa humiliare nostram assumens naturam per omnia (si excipiamus peccatum) par nobis factus, secundo pro nostris peccatis expiandis maximos cruciatus pertulit,
Primo dignatus est Christus se Our causa humiliare nostram assumens naturam per omnia (si excipiamus peccatum) par nobis factus, secundo Pro nostris peccatis expiandis maximos Cruelties pertulit,
Lossius on the 16. Psalme saith, Descendit ad inferos totus Christus sive filius Dei, sicut idem conceptus est de spiritu sancto, natus ex Maria Virgine, crucifixus, m•rtuus, & sepultus.
Lossius on the 16. Psalm Says, Descendit ad inferos totus Christus sive filius Dei, sicut idem conceptus est de spiritu sancto, Born ex Maria Virgae, Crucifix, m•rtuus, & sepultus.
Vrbanus Rhegius in Catechismo, saith, Secundum animam descendit ad inferna ad pias animas Adami, Noahi, Lothi, &c. Heere this man saith, that hee went into hell to the holy soules of Adam Noah,
Urban Regius in Catechismo, Says, Secundum animam descendit ad inferna ad pias animas Adam, Noahi, Lothi, etc. Here this man Says, that he went into hell to the holy Souls of Adam Noah,
Maister Nowell in his greater Catechisme saith, Christum, vt co•pore in terrae viscera, Ita anima à corpore sep•rata ad inferos descendisse, simulque etiam virtutis suae virtutem atque efficacitatem ad mo•tuos, atque inferos adeo ipsos ita penetrasse, vt & incredulorum animae acerbissim•m justissimamque infidelitatis suae dānationem, •pseque Satanas i•ferorum princeps tyrannidis suae,
Master Noel in his greater Catechism Says, Christ, vt co•pore in terrae viscera, Ita anima à corpore sep•rata ad inferos descendisse, simulque etiam virtue suae virtutem atque efficacitatem ad mo•tuos, atque inferos adeo ipsos ita penetrasse, vt & incredulorum Spirits acerbissim•m justissimamque infidelitatis suae dānationem, •pseque Satanas i•ferorum princeps Tyranny suae,
Contra vero mortui Christo dum vixerunt fidentes, redemptionis suae •pus jam peractum esse, ejusq vim, atque virtutem cum suavissima, cer••ssimaque consolatione intellige•ent atque perciperent.
Contra vero Deads Christ dum vixerunt fidentes, redemptionis suae •pus jam peractum esse, ejusq vim, atque virtutem cum suavissima, cer••ssimaque consolation intellige•ent atque perciperent.
but that his soul being severed from his body, that is, beeing departed this life, he discended ad inferos, that is, was laid vp amongst them whose life was blotted out of the memory of the living.
but that his soul being severed from his body, that is, being departed this life, he descended ad inferos, that is, was laid up among them whose life was blotted out of the memory of the living.
Thirdly, hee saith not that those, to whome he descended saw him there personally ▪ but they felt and vnderstood the one their j•st damnation, the other their sweet salvation together with his descending to the dead that is presently vpon the dissolution of his soule and body.
Thirdly, he Says not that those, to whom he descended saw him there personally ▪ but they felt and understood the one their j•st damnation, the other their sweet salvation together with his descending to the dead that is presently upon the dissolution of his soul and body.
Robert Samuell in the bo•ke of Martyrs, making a confession of his faith when he comes to this point, saith no more thā the words of the beleefe, which be meant as wel with vs,
Robert Samuel in the bo•ke of Martyrs, making a Confessi of his faith when he comes to this point, Says no more than the words of the belief, which be meant as well with us,
Lambe•t in the same book handling the question of the real presence, quotes a place out of Aug. ad Dardanum to proue that Christ being corporally in heaven, is not corporally in the Sacrament:
Lambe•t in the same book handling the question of the real presence, quotes a place out of Aug. ad Dardanum to prove that christ being corporally in heaven, is not corporally in the Sacrament:
in which place being long, Aug. amongst those things, that Lambert quotes him for, saith that Christ according to his soule was in the bottome of hel (which if it be wel taken may be) was devoured and swallowed vp of death ▪ but Lambert himselfe neither alloweth nor dissalloweth it,
in which place being long, Aug. among those things, that Lambert quotes him for, Says that christ according to his soul was in the bottom of hell (which if it be well taken may be) was devoured and swallowed up of death ▪ but Lambert himself neither alloweth nor disalloweth it,
The Printer (for I think M. Fox neuer cared greatly, what signe they hanged at his shop dore) or if it was M. Fox himselfe, all is one, devised a picture to expresse the matter within the book.
The Printer (for I think M. Fox never cared greatly, what Signen they hanged At his shop door) or if it was M. Fox himself, all is one, devised a picture to express the matter within the book.
This picture M. Doctor tooke to be so sure an argument of Christs descending into hell, that he not onely causeth to set it before his owne b••k likewise:
This picture M. Doctor took to be so sure an argument of Christ descending into hell, that he not only Causes to Set it before his own b••k likewise:
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& some say nothing for him ▪ wherefore thou maiest conclude, that it is but a painted cause that alleadgeth pictures for arguments ▪ there is not one of al the Authours, that he masters so often:
& Some say nothing for him ▪ Wherefore thou Mayest conclude, that it is but a painted cause that allegeth pictures for Arguments ▪ there is not one of all the Authors, that he Masters so often:
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Cajetane a Cardinall of Rome writing vpon the place of Peter (I• he had not scarred at his popish name) commeth nee•er him than any of these, Vt ipse Christus mortificatus carne (nam vere mortuus est secundum carnem) viuificatus autem spiritu (nam tunc cum mortuus erat viuificatus erat spiritu) vt pote beatus secundum spiritum, & triumphans de daemonibus.
Cajetane a Cardinal of Rome writing upon the place of Peter (I• he had not scarred At his popish name) comes nee•er him than any of these, Vt ipse Christus Mortificatus Carnem (nam vere Mortuus est secundum Carnem) viuificatus autem spiritu (nam tunc cum Mortuus erat viuificatus erat spiritu) vt pote beatus secundum spiritum, & Triumphans the daemonibus.