An apologie of priuate masse spred abroade in writing without name of the authour: as it seemeth, against the offer and protestacion made in certayne sermons by the reuerent father Bisshop of Salsburie: with an answer to the same Apologie, set foorth for the maintenance and defence of the trueth. Perused and allowed, by the reuerent father in God Edmonde Bisshop of London, accordynge to the order appoincted in the Que'enes maiestes iniunctions.
And so much the rather, because god of his infinit goodnes hath called me backe againe from all suche lewde fansies, by the godly instruction of the learned:
And so much the rather, Because god of his infinite Goodness hath called me back again from all such lewd fancies, by the godly instruction of the learned:
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And to make mine entrie with you (maister Iewell) whiche are counted the greatest clarke on your side, I meruell not a litle why you, beyng reputed a man of such learnyng, vtterly refuse to proue the doctrine you teache.
And to make mine entry with you (master Jewel) which Are counted the greatest Clerk on your side, I marvel not a little why you, being reputed a man of such learning, utterly refuse to prove the Doctrine you teach.
Your vocation to so highe a rome, the place where you taught, the honorable estate of the audience, which hard you, the doctrine you taught auctorised by the realme,
Your vocation to so high a room, the place where you taught, the honourable estate of the audience, which hard you, the Doctrine you taught authorised by the realm,
or by argument boulted foorth without anie dishonour to God, or blemish to him that taketh the matter in hande, (as a man in déede may) shall you counte the Realme dishonoured,
or by argument bolted forth without any dishonour to God, or blemish to him that Takes the matter in hand, (as a man in deed may) shall you count the Realm dishonoured,
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as al other christian realmes did, without any contradiction at all, amongest the learned: whereas in this assente, as many learned clarkes, well knowen to the worlde, said nay,
as all other christian Realms did, without any contradiction At all, amongst the learned: whereas in this assent, as many learned Clerks, well known to the world, said nay,
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And if the chief proufe of your doctrine be the assente of this realme, shall not other christian realmes, that teache quite contrarie vnto you, rest in doctrine auctorised by them,
And if the chief proof of your Doctrine be the assent of this realm, shall not other christian Realms, that teach quite contrary unto you, rest in Doctrine authorised by them,
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and al christian realmes besides? Here you ar driuen, if you rest so stoutly vpon thassent of realmes, to confesse that the doctrine taught here is trew,
and all christian Realms beside? Here you Are driven, if you rest so stoutly upon thassent of Realms, to confess that the Doctrine taught Here is true,
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But where be the scriptures wherby the realme auctorised your doctrine? You may not say, it shall be greate dishonour to the realme, to haue such scripturs knowne,
But where be the Scriptures whereby the realm authorised your Doctrine? You may not say, it shall be great dishonour to the realm, to have such Scriptures known,
Haue wée not here good cause to maruell that you, whiche studdie so maruelous reformacion of all doctrine to the touche stone of scripture, will openly professe, bearyng suche a personage in suche places of honour, suche doctrine as can neither bee proued by scripture, nor any other substancial record:
Have we not Here good cause to marvel that you, which study so marvelous Reformation of all Doctrine to the touch stone of scripture, will openly profess, bearing such a personage in such places of honour, such Doctrine as can neither bee proved by scripture, nor any other substantial record:
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Yet when there is an affirmatiue imploied in the negatiue, as there is here, thoughe I discharge you of very gentilnes from the proufe of thone, order of schooles will driue you to proue the other:
Yet when there is an affirmative employed in the negative, as there is Here, though I discharge you of very gentleness from the proof of thone, order of Schools will driven you to prove the other:
This terme priuate, whiche you in this place first inuented, I meane Luthers schoole, may be taken concerning this matter diuers waies. One way, priuate is contrarie to common, to many.
This term private, which you in this place First invented, I mean Luthers school, may be taken Concerning this matter diverse ways. One Way, private is contrary to Common, to many.
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or to say that none ought to receiue the Sacrament, but the priest, you might haue charged vs that wée wente aboute to enclose that to some one sorte of priuate profit, that ought to remaine in common for all sortes of people.
or to say that none ought to receive the Sacrament, but the priest, you might have charged us that we went about to enclose that to Some one sort of private profit, that ought to remain in Common for all sorts of people.
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That euery priest or any other ought, when he receiueth the sacrament, to haue companie to receiue with him in the same time and place, vpon payne of Gods high indignation:
That every priest or any other ought, when he receiveth the sacrament, to have company to receive with him in the same time and place, upon pain of God's high Indignation:
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If you be able to proue neither the negatiue, nor the affirmatiue, storme not so sore against the doctrine of the catholik churche, the whiche falsehed many times assaulteth,
If you be able to prove neither the negative, nor the affirmative, storm not so soar against the Doctrine of the catholic Church, the which falsehood many times assaulteth,
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And will you I beséeche ye reforme al thynges to the very state of the primatiue churche now? Will you suppresse al christian kyng { is } which were not in the Apostels time? Wyll you alter the state now,
And will you I beseech you reform all things to the very state of the primitive Church now? Will you suppress all christian King { is } which were not in the Apostles time? Will you altar the state now,
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and make all thinges to be common? Wyll you disgrace, all preachers that woorke not miracles? Wyl you inforce women to hoodwinke them selues in the churche? will you rayle against bisshoppes that kéepe any temporalties? Wyll ye set men at liberty to doo their duty at what churche they will? Wyll ye inhibit the folkes to eate bluddynges,
and make all things to be Common? Wyll you disgrace, all Preachers that work not Miracles? Wyl you enforce women to hoodwink them selves in the Church? will you rail against Bishops that keep any Temporalities? Wyll you Set men At liberty to do their duty At what Church they will? Wyll you inhibit the folks to eat bluddynges,
or Pigions, or Capons, suche as are killed by stiffilyng? Will you inforce vs to be houseled after supper? Wyll you housell all babes and infantes againe? To call suche thynges to the state of the Apostels time, and of the primatiue church againe, is nothyng els,
or Pigeons, or Capons, such as Are killed by stiffilyng? Will you enforce us to be houseled After supper? Wyll you housell all babes and Infants again? To call such things to the state of the Apostles time, and of the primitive Church again, is nothing Else,
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In the one, wée conceiue the vse of that age, not withstandynge the law of the churche euen then might stande indifferently to the contrarie, vpon circumstances and good consideracions.
In the one, we conceive the use of that age, not withstanding the law of the Church even then might stand indifferently to the contrary, upon Circumstances and good considerations.
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The constant faith, the pure life, the feruent charitée, the contempte of the worlde, that then florisshed so amongest such as professed Christ, might cause perhappes that no Masse was celibrated,
The constant faith, the pure life, the fervent charity, the contempt of the world, that then flourished so amongst such as professed christ, might cause perhaps that no Mass was celibrated,
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In that state of burnynge charitée, and of contempt of the worlde, and al the pleasures therof, some of the people, perhaps of their owne accorde, did alwaies willyngly and gladly prepare theim selues at euery Masse to be housled with the priest:
In that state of burning charity, and of contempt of the world, and all the pleasures thereof, Some of the people, perhaps of their own accord, did always willingly and gladly prepare them selves At every Mass to be housled with the priest:
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And will you now in the state of keycolde charitée, when the people are nothyng willyng to dispose theim selues to receiue their housill, plucke the priest from the aulter, whose office as to offer that dayly sacrifice for the people,
And will you now in the state of keycolde charity, when the people Are nothing willing to dispose them selves to receive their housill, pluck the priest from the alter, whose office as to offer that daily sacrifice for the people,
when he is not disposed, cause him to offende the law of God, that is bounde therto? If you had any suche texte in the holy scripture to binde the priest neuer to say Masse without some to communicate,
when he is not disposed, cause him to offend the law of God, that is bound thereto? If you had any such text in the holy scripture to bind the priest never to say Mass without Some to communicate,
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And yet when the matter were well bulted, you shall neuer be able to proue any cōmaundement therby against the soole receiuing of the Sacrament by the priest,
And yet when the matter were well bulted, you shall never be able to prove any Commandment thereby against the fool receiving of the Sacrament by the priest,
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or els forbeare the celebracion of the holy sacrifice, hauyng no title of any suche coulour in the holy scripture, I wyll not cal that by the name that I may iustly,
or Else forbear the celebration of the holy sacrifice, having no title of any such colour in the holy scripture, I will not call that by the name that I may justly,
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S. Chrisostome in his thirde homely vpon the epistle to ye Ephesians in his complainte there doeth so set foorth the matter, as it is to be wished both what the people should doo,
S. Chrysostom in his Third homely upon the epistle to the Ephesians in his complaint there doth so Set forth the matter, as it is to be wished both what the people should do,
Euen so all good men may wishe that al christian people were alwaies so deuoute and wel disposed, that they might with goddes fauour, receiue their housil daily.
Even so all good men may wish that all christian people were always so devout and well disposed, that they might with God's favour, receive their housil daily.
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In aliis quidem tēporibus quū puri frequenter sitis, non acceditis. In pascha vero sicet sit aliquid a vobis perpetratū acceditis, O consuetudinem, O presūptionē, sacrificiū frustra quotidianū offerimus.
In Others quidem tēporibus quū puri frequenter sitis, non acceditis. In pascha vero sicet sit Aliquid a vobis perpetratū acceditis, O consuetudinem, O presūptionē, sacrificiū frustra quotidianū offerimus.
Wée stand at thaulter for nought. There is none to be howslid. I speake not these thing { is } because you shoulde receiue your housil rashly, but for thintēt you should
We stand At thaulter for nought. There is none to be howslid. I speak not these thing { is } Because you should receive your housil rashly, but for intent you should
Can you call that a daily sacrifice that is not daily offered up? or that a daily sacrifice that is not celebrated but once in the yere, at Easter? At the which time the people vsed to receiue:
Can you call that a daily sacrifice that is not daily offered up? or that a daily sacrifice that is not celebrated but once in the year, At Easter? At the which time the people used to receive:
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Is it not euident by this complainte of S. Chrisostom that the priest did his duetie, not withstanding ther was none to receiue with him? Or els if he were constrained to refraine when none woulde receiue with him, doeth it not appeare that then it foloweth that he did celebrate but at Easter onely,
Is it not evident by this complaint of S. Chrysostom that the priest did his duty, not withstanding there was none to receive with him? Or Else if he were constrained to refrain when none would receive with him, doth it not appear that then it Followeth that he did celebrate but At Easter only,
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Haue wée not founde then that in Chrisostomes time there was priuate Masse, as you doo terme it? Why say you that in all other thinges wée holde contrary vnto you.
Have we not found then that in Chrysostom time there was private Mass, as you do term it? Why say you that in all other things we hold contrary unto you.
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<2^PAGES^MISSING> doo you minister it to the layties, where Christ gaue it only vnto the Apostels yt were priestes? You wil say yt wée haue no cōmaundement to exclude any state of mē.
<2^PAGES^MISSING> do you minister it to the layties, where christ gave it only unto the Apostles that were Priests? You will say that we have no Commandment to exclude any state of men.
but to say as you said before, yt as place, sexe, time, day, degrée, state of people, secretnesse, are nothing aperteinyng as necessarie to ye substance of the sacrament:
but to say as you said before, that as place, sex, time, day, degree, state of people, secretness, Are nothing aperteinyng as necessary to you substance of the sacrament:
the alteracion wherof doo lie in the discrecion of spirituall gouernours, without damage or hurte doone to the substance of the sacrament or the vse there of:
the alteration whereof do lie in the discretion of spiritual Governors, without damage or hurt done to the substance of the sacrament or the use there of:
But the greate matter you harpe on to haue companie together in one place to receiue at any time with the priest is because that in the vse of this sacramēt ther ought to be a cōmuniō.
But the great matter you harp on to have company together in one place to receive At any time with the priest is Because that in the use of this sacrament there ought to be a communion.
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And I pray you is not there a cōmunion among all christians in praier? For in our praier we say our father, not my father which arte in heauen, thy wil be doon in earth as it is in heauen, not in mée as it is in heauē, geue vs this day our daily bread, wée say not geue mée this day my daily bread, forgeue vs our trespasses, wée say not forgeue mée my trespasses. &c. Whereby wée know that wée communicate in praier with all christendome beyng members of one misticall bodie of Christe.
And I pray you is not there a communion among all Christians in prayer? For in our prayer we say our father, not my father which art in heaven, thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven, not in me as it is in heaven, give us this day our daily bred, we say not give me this day my daily bred, forgive us our Trespasses, we say not forgive me my Trespasses. etc. Whereby we know that we communicate in prayer with all Christendom being members of one mystical body of Christ.
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or will you shutte vp al christendome in some narow roome, that thei may be togethers at one time to say the Lordes praier? Or will you graunte that there may be a Communion in praier amongest all christians without any respecte to haue them together at one time in any one place,
or will you shut up all Christendom in Some narrow room, that they may be together At one time to say the lords prayer? Or will you grant that there may be a Communion in prayer amongst all Christians without any respect to have them together At one time in any one place,
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and that there can be no communion in the vse of the Sacrament, vnlesse all the communicantes be together in one place and at one time? Haue you any scripture to leade you to say that the communion in the vse of the sacrament must of necessitée haue all the communicantes in one place at one time closse vp, more then the cōmunion in praier? One of the articles of the Créede is, Credo sanctorum communionem. I beléeue the communion of sainctes.
and that there can be no communion in the use of the Sacrament, unless all the communicantes be together in one place and At one time? Have you any scripture to lead you to say that the communion in the use of the sacrament must of necessity have all the communicantes in one place At one time close up, more then the communion in prayer? One of the Articles of the Creed is, Credo sanctorum communionem. I believe the communion of Saints.
or els to haue no parte of such a communion as there is comprised in these holy sacramentes? Is this your doctrine? Wher haue you these in scripture? There is an olde doctour called Dionisius:
or Else to have no part of such a communion as there is comprised in these holy Sacraments? Is this your Doctrine? Where have you these in scripture? There is an old Doctor called Dionysius:
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Quoniā vnus panis & vnū corpus musti sumus, omnes quidē de vno pane & de vno casice participamus, wherby wée here ye christians are pertakers of one lofe,
Quoniā vnus Paris & vnū corpus musti sumus, omnes quidē de vno pane & de vno casice participamus, whereby we Here the Christians Are partakers of one lofe,
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Surely as touchinge your fancie to haue of necessitie the communicantes closed vp in one place, there to be serued at one especial time, or els to be no partakers of the communion, it wil fal in processe of reasoning to so many follies:
Surely as touching your fancy to have of necessity the communicantes closed up in one place, there to be served At one especial time, or Else to be no partakers of the communion, it will fall in process of reasoning to so many follies:
And as for the place when the multitude of the communicantes are verie greate, whether may be a communion betwixt him that receiueth at the Aulter in our Lady chapell in Paules,
And as for the place when the multitude of the communicantes Are very great, whither may be a communion betwixt him that receiveth At the Alter in our Lady chapel in Paul's,
and why not be partakers of one cōmunion in foure or fiue churches no further distant? If not, limit you then the furthest distance that a communion may be had in,
and why not be partakers of one communion in foure or fiue Churches no further distant? If not, limit you then the furthest distance that a communion may be had in,
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Erasmus Roterodamus in his epistle that he wrote against false gospellers, reporteth how they were wonte in the olde time in the primatiue churche, to deliuer euery one ye sacrament in their handes to beare home with them and receiue it when their deuocion serued.
Erasmus Rotterdam in his epistle that he wrote against false Evangelists, Reporteth how they were wont in the old time in the primitive Church, to deliver every one the sacrament in their hands to bear home with them and receive it when their devotion served.
When diuers people tooke the Lordes body in their handes to receiue it at home in their seuerall houses when their deuocion serued them to receiue it, are any yet so vnwise to thinke that they that so receiued it were either in one place, cōsidering their houses wer• seuerall,
When diverse people took the lords body in their hands to receive it At home in their several houses when their devotion served them to receive it, Are any yet so unwise to think that they that so received it were either in one place, considering their houses wer• several,
or at any one time, consideringe the varietie of their deuocions, willes, purposes, and trade of life? Do you not se in these few wordes that the partakers of any one communion were not-wonte to be clogged to receiue it in any place or at any one especiall time? Do not you manifestly heare a reseruacion of the sacramente confessed here? And where as it was deliuered in their handes,
or At any one time, considering the variety of their devotions, wills, Purposes, and trade of life? Do you not see in these few words that the partakers of any one communion were not-wonte to be clogged to receive it in any place or At any one especial time? Do not you manifestly hear a reservation of the sacrament confessed Here? And where as it was Delivered in their hands,
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When the christian wife did secretly receiue the holy sacrament, was there any company receiued with hir? Can a thyng done in companie, be secret? Or coulde she kéepe close from the Panime hir husbande that thyng that should be often practised in any open assemblie? Were not thinke you the panimes that at that time were the greater numbre, diligent to searche what the christians did? Séemeth it not in hir secret receiuyng before all meates, that she reserued the sacrament at home, to receiue it when she woulde? And where Tertulian saieth, that if it chaunced that her husbande knew what she eate, he would thinke it to be bread, (makynge no mencion he woulde thinke it to bee wine) and not the very body of Christ, as the christians do confesse.
When the christian wife did secretly receive the holy sacrament, was there any company received with his? Can a thing done in company, be secret? Or could she keep close from the Panime his husband that thing that should be often practised in any open assembly? Were not think you the panimes that At that time were the greater numbered, diligent to search what the Christians did? Seemeth it not in his secret receiving before all Meats, that she reserved the sacrament At home, to receive it when she would? And where Tertullian Saith, that if it chanced that her husband knew what she eat, he would think it to be bred, (making no mention he would think it to be wine) and not the very body of christ, as the Christians doe confess.
Furthermore séemeth not this woman to haue receiued it vnder one kinde? For hir husband that saw hir eate the fourme of bread, that was wonte to be first receiued, woulde soone haue perceiued when she dranke the fourme of wyne, that shoulde be immediately receiued after.
Furthermore Seemeth not this woman to have received it under one kind? For his husband that saw his eat the Form of bred, that was wont to be First received, would soon have perceived when she drank the Form of wine, that should be immediately received After.
<2^PAGES^MISSING> mutabitur sacro sanctum corpus christi, sed virtus, benedictio & viuificatiua gratia magis in eo est. They are then madde that saie the misticall benediction or blessing leaueth from the sanctification,
<2^PAGES^MISSING> mutabitur Sacred sanctum corpus Christ, sed virtus, Benediction & viuificatiua Gratia magis in eo est. They Are then mad that say the mystical benediction or blessing Leaveth from the sanctification,
though it be kept, and the vertue, and ful power of the consecracion, and the liuely quicknynge grace doeth continew stil in the holy porcions that are reserued:
though it be kept, and the virtue, and full power of the consecration, and the lively quickening grace doth continue still in the holy portions that Are reserved:
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when S. Ciprian that holy martir maketh reporte of the holy sacrament reserued at home in the womans coffer, to receiue when hir lust, when deuocion serued hir:
when S. Cyprian that holy Martyr's makes report of the holy sacrament reserved At home in the woman's coffer, to receive when his lust, when devotion served his:
When Tertulian afore that agréeth with the same, and when Erasmus Roterodame, a man famous in his time, recordeth the matter as he had learned it of these holy fathers and other:
When Tertullian afore that agreeth with the same, and when Erasmus Roterodame, a man famous in his time, recordeth the matter as he had learned it of these holy Father's and other:
and especially such witnesses as these are, men of holy life, aunciente fathers of greate learnyng, called foorth to witnesse ye trueth from euery quarter of the worlde, some from Asia, some from Africa, some from Europa. &c. What say you to Satyrus, that hanged the hely sacrament aboute his necke in a stole,
and especially such Witnesses as these Are, men of holy life, ancient Father's of great learning, called forth to witness you truth from every quarter of the world, Some from Asia, Some from Africa, Some from Europa. etc. What say you to Satyr, that hanged the hely sacrament about his neck in a stole,
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when he wente to the sea? What say you to the greate clarke S. Ambrose bisshop of Millayn, that praised him greatly for his so doyng? Apered not there a reseruacion? And I trow vnder one kinde,
when he went to the sea? What say you to the great Clerk S. Ambrose bishop of Milan, that praised him greatly for his so doing? Appeared not there a reservation? And I trow under one kind,
and when he sent no more then woulde serue the sicke man, was not there the howselyng of one alone without companie? The twelfth Cannon of Nicene counsell prouideth for suche as are like to departe this life, to receiue the sacrament or they departe.
and when he sent no more then would serve the sick man, was not there the howselyng of one alone without company? The twelfth Cannon of Nicene counsel Provideth for such as Are like to depart this life, to receive the sacrament or they depart.
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The wordes be these De iis qui recedunt excorpore, antiqua segis regusa obseruabitur etiā nunc. Ita ve si quis forte recedat ex corpore, necessario vitae suae viatico non defraudetur.
The words be these De iis qui recedunt excorpore, Antiqua segis regusa obseruabitur etiā nunc. Ita ve si quis forte recedat ex corpore, Necessarily vitae suae viatico non defraudetur.
If he that was in dispaier of life after yt he receiued the cōmunion chaunce to recouer, let him be amongest them that do communicate by praiers onely.
If he that was in despair of life After that he received the communion chance to recover, let him be amongst them that do communicate by Prayers only.
The holy auncient counsell of all the learned fathers at Nice, thought it conuenient that suche as were like to die, should be howseled before their departyng:
The holy ancient counsel of all the learned Father's At Nicaenae, Thought it convenient that such as were like to die, should be howseled before their departing:
And coulde this rule be vnuiolably kepte amongest so many casualties of sicknesse and sodeine infectiones and diuers other chaunces that fall at diuers and sundrie times bothe by day and night, vnlesse the holy sacramente were reserued? And vnlesse euery man receiued as necessitie serued alone with out company,
And could this Rule be unviolably kept amongst so many casualties of sickness and sudden infectiones and diverse other chances that fallen At diverse and sundry times both by day and night, unless the holy sacrament were reserved? And unless every man received as necessity served alone with out company,
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Hoc ne { que } regula, né { que } consuetudo tradit, vt ij, qui offerendi sacrificij potestatem non habent, hiis qui offerunt corpus christi porrigant.
Hoc ne { que } regula, né { que } consuetudo tradit, vt ij, qui offerendi sacrificij potestatem non habent, Isis qui offerunt corpus Christ porrigant.
Neither rule, neither custome taught this, that they that haue no aucthoritée to offer sacrifice should deliuer the body of christ to them that offer it.
Neither Rule, neither custom taught this, that they that have no Authority to offer sacrifice should deliver the body of Christ to them that offer it.
and receiue it, can you denie but it was reserued? And that the same grace of Christes body remained in the holy sacrament after the consecracion in the bishoppes and priestes absence? Which coulde by no meanes be consecrated,
and receive it, can you deny but it was reserved? And that the same grace of Christ's body remained in the holy sacrament After the consecration in the Bishops and Priests absence? Which could by no means be consecrated,
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I will not cauill with you vpon the terme aboue rehersed in the Cannon, concernyng the deacons, that they might in the bisshoppes and priestes absence, bryng forth the sacramente and eate it:
I will not cavil with you upon the term above rehearsed in the Cannon, Concerning the Deacons, that they might in the Bishops and Priests absence, bring forth the sacrament and eat it:
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Notwithstandynge I might as well stande therein and better to, then you stande vpon Accipite & manducate, & bibite ex hoc omnes, to driue the sacrament immediatly without any reseruacion to his vse,
Notwithstanding I might as well stand therein and better to, then you stand upon Accipite & manducate, & Bibite ex hoc omnes, to driven the sacrament immediately without any reservation to his use,
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I wil not I say vse no such daliance vpon the worde, eate in the Cannon as you vse in take eate and drinke al of this in the vse of the sacrament very sophistically.
I will not I say use no such dalliance upon the word, eat in the Cannon as you use in take eat and drink all of this in the use of the sacrament very sophistically.
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I am contented to vse none other proufe, but suche, as al men that haue any discretion, do so euidently perceiue to be so good, that they are neuer able to finde any occasion in the worlde to controlle it.
I am contented to use none other proof, but such, as all men that have any discretion, do so evidently perceive to be so good, that they Are never able to find any occasion in the world to control it.
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Such as I haue vsed before for the proufe of priuate masse, reseruacion the soole receiuynge or ministracion of the sacramente in certaine cases vnder one kinde, to haue ben vsed in the state of the primatiue churche.
Such as I have used before for the proof of private mass, reservation the fool receiving or ministration of the sacrament in certain cases under one kind, to have been used in the state of the primitive Church.
Reade S. Cyprian in his fifte sermon De sapsis, there shal you se that the deacon gaue an Infante, that had receiued before parte of such meates as were sacrifised vp to the Idoles, a porcion of Christes bloud out of the Chalis.
Read S. Cyprian in his Fifth sermon De sapsis, there shall you see that the deacon gave an Infant, that had received before part of such Meats as were sacrificed up to the Idols, a portion of Christ's blood out of the Chalis.
And as soone as the infante receiued it, it was wonderfully vered, because it was meruelous dishonour to the bloud of Christe to be powred into the mouthe that was a litle before defiled with the Idoles sacrifice.
And as soon as the infant received it, it was wonderfully vered, Because it was marvelous dishonour to the blood of Christ to be poured into the Mouth that was a little before defiled with the Idols sacrifice.
Not for because it was our parte, that are in possession, to render any reason for our right, wherein prescription of time out of minde is a sufficient barre:
Not for Because it was our part, that Are in possession, to render any reason for our right, wherein prescription of time out of mind is a sufficient bar:
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when I, who am nothyng in comparison of the learned Doctours of this realme, beyng a man of no greate reading, but in stories, am yet able thus to say in so good a matter, that I trust you will here after leaue your importunitie of prouokyng so many learned men of this realme, to shew what euidence they haue for the truth.
when I, who am nothing in comparison of the learned Doctors of this realm, being a man of no great reading, but in stories, am yet able thus to say in so good a matter, that I trust you will Here After leave your importunity of provoking so many learned men of this realm, to show what evidence they have for the truth.
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It had béen more reasonable, that you (that woulde dispossesse vs of the interest wée haue in the trew doctrine, that the catholike church first taught vs,
It had been more reasonable, that you (that would dispossess us of the Interest we have in the true Doctrine, that the catholic Church First taught us,
I meruell that you thinke it not hurt to your side, to grant that the hole practise of the church hath runne with vs this.ix. hundreth yeares and thrée score:
I marvel that you think it not hurt to your side, to grant that the hold practice of the Church hath run with us this ix Hundredth Years and thrée score:
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You hange vpon the state of the sire hundreth yeres, that were next after Christ, and you se how that the whole recorde of the state runneth against you. Tertulian is against you: Ciprian is against you: Eusebius is against you: Ambrose is against you: Cyrill is against you:
You hang upon the state of the sire Hundredth Years, that were next After christ, and you see how that the Whole record of the state Runneth against you. Tertullian is against you: Cyprian is against you: Eusebius is against you: Ambrose is against you: Cyril is against you:
but haue brought you vnto the fight of suche prouision, as the holy auncient fathers of the primatiue thurche, suche as your selues do alowe, haue made for vs. But come vnto the practise of the churche,
but have brought you unto the fight of such provision, as the holy ancient Father's of the primitive thurche, such as your selves do allow, have made for us But come unto the practice of the Church,
but to dishonour so many auncient fathers, as haue written this latter.ix. hundred yeres? Know you not the scripture, Qui masedixerit patrives matri morte morietur.
but to dishonour so many ancient Father's, as have written this latter ix hundred Years? Know you not the scripture, Qui masedixerit patrives matri morte morietur.
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And what malediction is there greater, then to blase, that our learned fathers (that liued so godly in praiers, fastyngs, almesdéedes continuall studie of doctrine, that hath their common agréement { is } for the space of.ix. hundred yeres and more) disceiued Christes flocke, know not the right faieth,
And what malediction is there greater, then to blaze, that our learned Father's (that lived so godly in Prayers, Fastings, almsdeeds continual study of Doctrine, that hath their Common agreement { is } for the Molle of ix hundred Years and more) disceiued Christ's flock, know not the right faith,
or any now a daies, what assurance can you make vs, that you do now know the truth? Beynge a man far vnderneth them in all pein•tes? and one that hath not continued here muche (as I here say) aboue fortie yeres,
or any now a days, what assurance can you make us, that you do now know the truth? Being a man Far underneath them in all pein•tes? and one that hath not continued Here much (as I Here say) above fortie Years,
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or olde doctours? Shal you with.ix. or.x. yeres studie in the matters of doctrine thinke your selfe able to sit as a iudge, to controll all such doctours,
or old Doctors? Shall you with ix or x Years study in the matters of Doctrine think your self able to fit as a judge, to control all such Doctors,
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They acknowledge that a general coūsell may take order in it, as a thynge indifferent. And hauyng no scripture for the prouse of the necessitée thereof.
They acknowledge that a general counsel may take order in it, as a thing indifferent. And having no scripture for the prouse of the necessity thereof.
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There is no worde vnpossible vnto God:) as well as you haue acquainted your selfe with Ismaell and Agar, that se no farther then the trade of common nature,
There is no word unpossible unto God:) as well as you have acquainted your self with Ishmael and Agar, that see no farther then the trade of Common nature,
or if you had marked, but the very rule of nature, how of an antecedent graūted, all necessarie consequence doo by force of reason issew there hence, you woulde neuer put the mattier in question.
or if you had marked, but the very Rule of nature, how of an antecedent granted, all necessary consequence do by force of reason issue there hence, you would never put the matter in question.
And so did saincte Chrisostome, S. Ambrose, S. Basill, and S. Bernard, when they vnderstode the sence of Christes wordes concerning the consecracion to be,
And so did saint Chrysostom, S. Ambrose, S. Basil, and S. Bernard, when they understood the sense of Christ's words Concerning the consecration to be,
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And of the alteracion of the substance of breade, the fathers in diuers ages saw it so depende vpon the first veritie, that they haue omitted no varietée of termes, to expresse it and to brynge it into the knowledge of the worlde.
And of the alteration of the substance of bread, the Father's in diverse ages saw it so depend upon the First verity, that they have omitted no variety of terms, to express it and to bring it into the knowledge of the world.
They haue transmutation, transelementation, mutation, conuertion, faction, afteration, transsubstanciation, and diuers other such, that are not to be rehersed now.
They have transmutation, transelementation, mutation, conuertion, faction, afteration, transsubstanciation, and diverse other such, that Are not to be rehearsed now.
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nor auncient fathers, Grekes us Latins, I will sende you to your great god Luther, in a littell booke that he wrote against the Swinglians, of the sence of the woordes of the supper of christe. They yet remayne vndefaced.
nor ancient Father's, Greeks us Latins, I will send you to your great god Luther, in a little book that he wrote against the Swinglians, of the sense of the words of the supper of Christ. They yet remain undefaced.
The trew sence of this littell sentence, This is my body that shal be desiuered for you, Is the roote and the originall of all suche labelles as wée teache, not mencioned in scripture expresly,
The true sense of this little sentence, This is my body that shall be desiuered for you, Is the root and the original of all such labelles as we teach, not mentioned in scripture expressly,
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he speaketh nothynge in these wordes of scommynge of the potte, of cleans water for the potage, of the earbes to be chopped, of scaldynge and drawynge the Capons, of makyng after, of hewyng of woodde, of laiyng the clothe,
he speaks nothing in these words of scommynge of the pot, of cleans water for the potage, of the earbes to be chopped, of scalding and drawing the Capons, of making After, of hewing of wood, of laying the cloth,
And yet, if the seruaunt woulde leaue the potte vnscommed, herbes vngathered, make potage with stinkyng water, put the Capon vpon ye broche, fethers, guttes and all,
And yet, if the servant would leave the pot vnscommed, herbs ungathered, make potage with stinking water, put the Capon upon you broche, Feathers, guts and all,
because all such doubtes are answered to the ful, in the oryginall veritie of Christes words, being in the nature of the veritée, necessarily imploied.
Because all such doubts Are answered to the full, in the original verity of Christ's words, being in the nature of the veritée, necessarily employed.
If you had found in the scripture spoken by Christe concerninge the blessed sacrament. This is not my body, but the figure of my body, beyng absent in substance,
If you had found in the scripture spoken by Christ Concerning the blessed sacrament. This is not my body, but the figure of my body, being absent in substance,
Were it good reason thinke you, that a magistrate at the demaunde of euery subiect should bryng reason to proue any law publisshed by the prince to bee good, which the same subiecte would proteste to be an euill and vniust law,
Were it good reason think you, that a magistrate At the demand of every Subject should bring reason to prove any law published by the Prince to be good, which the same Subject would protest to be an evil and unjust law,
If that should be so, beside other inconueniences, he might séeme to submit the iudgement of the prince and realme to the mislikynge of one waywarde subiecte.
If that should be so, beside other inconveniences, he might seem to submit the judgement of the Prince and realm to the misliking of one waywarde Subject.
he ought to acknowledge and stande in defence of that benefit, wherby, through gods worde and aucthoritée of the prince, he is sette in open possession of that, which you before vsurped.
he ought to acknowledge and stand in defence of that benefit, whereby, through God's word and Authority of the Prince, he is Set in open possession of that, which you before usurped.
He sayde not absolutely no negatiue proposition coulde be proued, neither doeth D. Cole finde so muche faute with him for deniyng that a negatiue might be proued (for him selfe had so saide before) but with this, that to gréeue his aduersarie he woulde stay vpon the negatiue,
He said not absolutely no negative proposition could be proved, neither doth D. Coal find so much fault with him for denying that a negative might be proved (for him self had so said before) but with this, that to grieve his adversary he would stay upon the negative,
For whereas you haue vntruly borne the worlde in hande, and make your auaunte continually, that the church hath taught as you doo these. xv. hundred yeres, that the holy scriptures, aunciente fathers & counsels doo make altogether for your doctrine & against ours:
For whereas you have untruly born the world in hand, and make your avaunt continually, that the Church hath taught as you do these. xv. hundred Years, that the holy Scriptures, ancient Father's & Counsels do make altogether for your Doctrine & against ours:
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or to declare it euidently to be false, as to rest vpon this true negatiue, that you haue no sufficiente proufe out of the aucthoritées before rehearsed.
or to declare it evidently to be false, as to rest upon this true negative, that you have no sufficient proof out of the aucthoritées before rehearsed.
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and bothe kindes were indifferently vsed, and no significacion at all of the contrarie. For the primatiue churche they bringe Justine, Dyonisius, Cyprian, Chrisostome and other
and both Kinds were indifferently used, and no signification At all of the contrary. For the primitive Church they bring Justin, Dionysius, Cyprian, Chrysostom and other
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<2^PAGES^MISSING> ther hée did of purpose seeke a shifte to cauille, or els in déede had nothinge to saye? Or if you doo thinke it reasonable, I will learne at your hande howe you coulde proue that negatiue by all your lawe or logike:
<2^PAGES^MISSING> there he did of purpose seek a shift to cauille, or Else in deed had nothing to say? Or if you do think it reasonable, I will Learn At your hand how you could prove that negative by all your law or logic:
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After your reasoninge againste the causes, that, as you saye, were alleged not to proue the negatiue, as it were to lay the ground of your controuersée for priuate masses, ye beginne with a distinction, that this terme priuate may be taken after dyuers sortes:
After your reasoning against the Causes, that, as you say, were alleged not to prove the negative, as it were to lay the ground of your controuersée for private masses, you begin with a distinction, that this term private may be taken After Diverse sorts:
so vngodly prophanation of the holy Sacrament, then to séeke occasion pleasantly to daly in the rehersall and deluding of the infinite vanyties therof.
so ungodly profanation of the holy Sacrament, then to seek occasion pleasantly to daly in the rehearsal and deluding of the infinite vanyties thereof.
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The other signification of priuate in sole receiuing by the priest, not imbarringe any that is willynge and ready to be partaker with him, ye say the Catholike Church doth and alway hath taught.
The other signification of private in sole receiving by the priest, not imbarringe any that is willing and ready to be partaker with him, you say the Catholic Church does and always hath taught.
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Why sir, is this the truste that you would séeme to haue in the trueth of your cause? is this the plaine and sound dealinge, that ye after professe to vse? is this the leauing of all shifts, where by ye may séeme to cauill, rather then staye vppon the chéefe profes of your matter? Who séeth not that euen in the very entrance, mistrustinge your quarel, ye seke a shiste as it were by policy to helpe that, whiche in the open féelde is not able to defende it selfe? This was no parte of the challinge (as you terme it).
Why sir, is this the trust that you would seem to have in the truth of your cause? is this the plain and found dealing, that you After profess to use? is this the leaving of all shifts, where by you may seem to cavil, rather then stay upon the chief profess of your matter? Who seeth not that even in the very Entrance, mistrusting your quarrel, you seek a shiste as it were by policy to help that, which in the open field is not able to defend it self? This was no part of the challinge (as you term it).
And yet your reasoninge in the residew of your treatise is suche, as if it were a sufficiente profe of priuate masse to shew, that some men and women in certaine cases receiued alone in the primatiue Church. But of your argumentes afterwarde.
And yet your reasoning in the residue of your treatise is such, as if it were a sufficient proof of private mass to show, that Some men and women in certain cases received alone in the primitive Church. But of your Arguments afterward.
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In this place ye shall geue me leaue to finde that faute in you, that Tussy in the beginning of his offices layeth to Panetius: who, intending to write of dutie in behauiour, omitteth the definition of the same:
In this place you shall give me leave to find that fault in you, that Tussy in the beginning of his Offices Layeth to Panetius: who, intending to write of duty in behaviour, omitteth the definition of the same:
If ye had this done, I doubte not but ye would rather haue plucked your pen from the paper, th•• haue medled with the matter, that ye are now entred into.
If you had this done, I doubt not but you would rather have plucked your pen from the paper, th•• have meddled with the matter, that you Are now entered into.
It is a sacrifice of the body and bloud of Christ vsed in the Churche in place of the Lordes Supper, by one prieste alone offered to God the father for the sinnes of quicke and deade:
It is a sacrifice of the body and blood of christ used in the Church in place of the lords Supper, by one priest alone offered to God the father for the Sins of quick and dead:
That it is a sacrifice of Christes body, that it is vsed in place of the Lordes Supper, that one may offerat for quicke and deade, that it is in the priestes power to apply it, all your sorte doe not only without resistance easely confesse, but without reason stoutly defende.
That it is a sacrifice of Christ's body, that it is used in place of the lords Supper, that one may offerat for quick and dead, that it is in the Priests power to apply it, all your sort do not only without resistance Easily confess, but without reason stoutly defend.
I doo therefore take priuate masse to be, not only as you and some other patrons of your cause of late yeares haue wrested it, sence the ministers of gods truth in this latter time haue driuen you to the best shiftes of interpretacion:
I do Therefore take private mass to be, not only as you and Some other Patrons of your cause of late Years have wrested it, sense the Ministers of God's truth in this latter time have driven you to the best shifts of Interpretation:
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And therein doo I also at this time ioigne issue with you, and say, that nether you nor any of your parte will euer be able to proue the same by the ho•y scriptures, auncient fathers, or alowed councels:
And therein do I also At this time join issue with you, and say, that neither you nor any of your part will ever be able to prove the same by the ho•y Scriptures, ancient Father's, or aloud Counsels:
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In the residue of your discourse ye woulde séeme to take from vs the true and right rule to reforme the church of Christ, that is, to proue that in doctrines and vse of the sacramentes al thinges should not be reduced to the patern of the Apostles time and the primatiue churche.
In the residue of your discourse you would seem to take from us the true and right Rule to reform the Church of christ, that is, to prove that in doctrines and use of the Sacraments all things should not be reduced to the pattern of the Apostles time and the primitive Church.
As touching the first, I cannot choose but greately merueile at your maner of reasonyng: whiche indeuour to proue the contrary of that, that no man did euer affirme.
As touching the First, I cannot choose but greatly marvel At your manner of reasoning: which endeavour to prove the contrary of that, that no man did ever affirm.
Did ye euer here of any, that woulde haue all thinges without exception reduced to that very forme of the worlde, that was in the primatiue churche? And yet your examples tendeth to the
Did you ever Here of any, that would have all things without exception reduced to that very Form of the world, that was in the primitive Church? And yet your Examples tendeth to the
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<2^PAGES^MISSING> rupted, either with false opinions depraued, or with superstitious ceremonies defaced, is it not full time thinke you to call for redresse accordyng to the scripture and primatiue churche? So to doo wée haue good example in Christe him selfe,
<2^PAGES^MISSING> rupted, either with false opinions depraved, or with superstitious ceremonies defaced, is it not full time think you to call for redress according to the scripture and primitive Church? So to do we have good Exampl in Christ him self,
S. Paule mindyng to redresse the abuse of this sacramente of the lordes supper, euen in this poincte, that they tooke it in partes and not together, bryngeth the institution of Christ from the beginnyng and saieth:
S. Paul minding to redress the abuse of this sacrament of the Lords supper, even in this point, that they took it in parts and not together, bringeth the Institution of christ from the beginning and Saith:
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Therefore, seyng it is so good a rule in religion to resorte to the first institucion, wée also without any iust reproche may require to haue the sacramentes reformed, accordynge to the scripture and the primatiue church.
Therefore, sing it is so good a Rule in Religion to resort to the First Institution, we also without any just reproach may require to have the Sacraments reformed, according to the scripture and the primitive Church.
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But you thinke perhapp { is }, although for shame ye may not say it, that their successours in calder age of the churche, were of more wisedome and discretion,
But you think perhapp { is }, although for shame you may not say it, that their Successors in calder age of the Church, were of more Wisdom and discretion,
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and know better what they had to doo, then the Apostles and olde fathers. Therto tendeth your similitude of bringyng a talle man againe to his swadlyng cloutes:
and know better what they had to do, then the Apostles and old Father's. Thereto tendeth your similitude of bringing a tall man again to his swaddling clouts:
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then wee muste néedes recken Christ, the Apostles, the fathers, to be infantes in religion, to be babes in gouernement of the churche, not to be able so well to se what was conueniente in the vse of the sacramente, as their posteritee were.
then we must needs reckon christ, the Apostles, the Father's, to be Infants in Religion, to be babes in government of the Church, not to be able so well to see what was convenient in the use of the sacrament, as their posterity were.
Can any christian mans hearte fall into that cogitacion without feare of Gods wrath and displeasure? And yet that must needes folow vpon this defence of your doctrine.
Can any christian men heart fallen into that cogitation without Fear of God's wrath and displeasure? And yet that must needs follow upon this defence of your Doctrine.
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when he is most indued with the vse of reason and wisedome? When had the churche of God such aboundant wisedome and knowledge of his heauenly misteries? When was it indued with so plentifull graces of the holy ghost,
when he is most endued with the use of reason and Wisdom? When had the Church of God such abundant Wisdom and knowledge of his heavenly Mysteres? When was it endued with so plentiful graces of the holy ghost,
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as it was in time of the Apostles and first fathers? Did it not appere in their pure life, in their feruent zeale, in their miraculous workyng? And will you then to defende your ceremonies affirme that time to be the state of infancie in the churche? Doo you not remember, that immediatly after ye attribute to the primatiue church passing feruent charitée, with excéedyng holynesse of life,
as it was in time of the Apostles and First Father's? Did it not appear in their pure life, in their fervent zeal, in their miraculous working? And will you then to defend your ceremonies affirm that time to be the state of infancy in the Church? Doo you not Remember, that immediately After you attribute to the primitive Church passing fervent charity, with exceeding holiness of life,
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and contempte of vertue? Whereof I pray you commeth this? Not because in the firste time they were stronge in godlynes, abundante in liuely spirite and grace of God? and wée now féeble and fainte to all vertuous doinge, lackinge wisedome,
and contempt of virtue? Whereof I pray you comes this? Not Because in the First time they were strong in godliness, abundant in lively Spirit and grace of God? and we now feeble and faint to all virtuous doing, lacking Wisdom,
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wherin they that should doo nothinge but preache the worde of God and teache the people, haue either cleane loste the vse of their speache throughe infancie and ignorance,
wherein they that should do nothing but preach the word of God and teach the people, have either clean lost the use of their speech through infancy and ignorance,
That ye may not thinke mée to speake of stomake more then trueth, reade the histories of this latter time, rede those that write particularly of the Bishoppes of Rome, sée howe many bée praised for preachinge to the people and for teachinge the worde of god, either by speakinge or writinge.
That you may not think me to speak of stomach more then truth, read the histories of this latter time, rede those that write particularly of the Bishops of Room, see how many been praised for preaching to the people and for teaching the word of god, either by speaking or writing.
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But you must againe consider, that the often frequenting of the Lordes Supper, by grace therein conferred, did bothe bréede and increase that same liuely faith and feruent charitée, that in mutuall loue and contempte of the worlde so flourishingly did shewe it selfe in them.
But you must again Consider, that the often frequenting of the lords Supper, by grace therein conferred, did both breed and increase that same lively faith and fervent charity, that in mutual love and contempt of the world so flourishingly did show it self in them.
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as the often frequenting therof did increase their so greate zeale and charitée. For by that meanes it was alwayes freshe in their memory, not only by hearinge,
as the often frequenting thereof did increase their so great zeal and charity. For by that means it was always fresh in their memory, not only by hearing,
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but also by féeling in them selfe, that they were all members of one body, all the children of one father, all deliuered oute of bondage by one raunsome, all fed with one foode, and norished at one table.
but also by feeling in them self, that they were all members of one body, all the children of one father, all Delivered out of bondage by one ransom, all fed with one food, and nourished At one table.
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Therfore that kaycolde charitée, that you say, and truly say, doeth reigne in these dayes, may not more iustly bée attributed to any one thinge, then to your priuate masse.
Therefore that kaycolde charity, that you say, and truly say, doth Reign in these days, may not more justly been attributed to any one thing, then to your private mass.
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You laye the cause of priuate masse vpon the keicolde charitée of the people: (and perhappes the first occasion came therof in déede) but your scaulding hotte and firebourning charitée may bee more iustly charged with the continuance thereof.
You say the cause of private mass upon the keicolde charity of the people: (and perhaps the First occasion Come thereof in deed) but your scaulding hot and firebourning charity may be more justly charged with the Continuance thereof.
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for all the mischiefe and diueleshnes either in naughtiues of life, or corruption of doctrine, that the Churche hath ben drowned in this certaine hundred yeres, may séeme to be drawen in firste by that occasion.
for all the mischief and diueleshnes either in naughtiues of life, or corruption of Doctrine, that the Church hath been drowned in this certain hundred Years, may seem to be drawn in First by that occasion.
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Then muste it of necessitée be, that the slacke vse of the same doth bringe in weakenes of faith, coldnesse of charitée, contempte of vertue, loue of the worlde,
Then must it of necessity be, that the slack use of the same does bring in weakness of faith, coldness of charity, contempt of virtue, love of the world,
I assure you sir, if the matter were so indéede vnfeinedly, & not you by force of truth against you driuen to séeke that interpretacion for a shifte, your soole receiuyng had ben muche more tollerable.
I assure you sir, if the matter were so indeed unfeignedly, & not you by force of truth against you driven to seek that Interpretation for a shift, your fool receiving had been much more tolerable.
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But when I pray you did any of you vse in priuate masses to cal for the people? to reproue their slacknes? to shew them the daunger of beyng priesente and not receiuyng? to tell them of the greate commoditées that commeth by the vse of it? When did any of you stande at the aulter as Chrisostom did,
But when I pray you did any of you use in private masses to call for the people? to reprove their slackness? to show them the danger of being priesente and not receiving? to tell them of the great commoditées that comes by the use of it? When did any of you stand At the alter as Chrysostom did,
declaryng to them, that, in being present at this heauenly feast as gasers and no receiuers, they did runne into the indignation and displeasure of god:
declaring to them, that, in being present At this heavenly feast as gazers and no Receivers, they did run into the Indignation and displeasure of god:
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euen as they, whiche, beyng bidde of a prince to a feast, and commynge into the house where tables be laied and furnisshed with meate, will stande lookyng on and eate none of it, muste of necessitée greatly displease that prince, whose prouision and furniture they doo so disgrace.
even as they, which, being bid of a Prince to a feast, and coming into the house where tables be laid and furnished with meat, will stand looking on and eat none of it, must of necessity greatly displease that Prince, whose provision and furniture they do so disgrace.
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When (I say) did any of you folowe his example, whom vniustly ye brynge for defence of your errour? Is not the whole maner of your Masse contrarie to this? Doo you not turne from the people? Doo you not whisper softly to your selfe? Doo you not vse a strange language, that neither the people,
When (I say) did any of you follow his Exampl, whom unjustly you bring for defence of your error? Is not the Whole manner of your Mass contrary to this? Doo you not turn from the people? Doo you not whisper softly to your self? Doo you not use a strange language, that neither the people,
though they receiue not the sacrament? Chrisostome proueth and other doctours witnesseth, that those, that be present and not receiue, doo wickedly and impudently:
though they receive not the sacrament? Chrysostom Proves and other Doctors Witnesseth, that those, that be present and not receive, do wickedly and impudently:
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But the effecte of your argument, wherein ye alledge the colde charitée of the people, there by to driue vs necessarely to graunte sole receiuinge, tendeth to this ende:
But the Effect of your argument, wherein you allege the cold charity of the people, there by to driven us necessarily to grant sole receiving, tendeth to this end:
Firste, acknowlage and amende that saute of your masse, wherin appereth neither callinge and exhortacion, nor gesture and language sitte for that purpose.
First, acknowledge and amend that saute of your mass, wherein appeareth neither calling and exhortation, nor gesture and language sit for that purpose.
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Then, I say it weare better not only to plucke him from the aulter, but also to caste him out of the Churche to, rather then hee should vnder that pretence both him selfe continually alter the institution of Christe,
Then, I say it wear better not only to pluck him from the alter, but also to cast him out of the Church to, rather then he should under that pretence both him self continually altar the Institution of Christ,
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Moreouer this keycolde charitée, that ye say the peoples heartes be frosen with, doth it stretche vnto priestes or no? Is their deuotion any hotter? surely their bourninge zeale, that of late time they haue vsed, proueth,
Moreover this keycolde charity, that you say the peoples hearts be frozen with, does it stretch unto Priests or no? Is their devotion any hotter? surely their bourninge zeal, that of late time they have used, Proves,
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and their hole behauiour to the worlde witnesseth, that right deuotion and true charitée is euen as little amonge your massinge priestes, as among the ignorante people.
and their hold behaviour to the world Witnesseth, that right devotion and true charity is even as little among your massing Priests, as among the ignorant people.
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How happeneth then, that they doo so offen frequent the Sacrament in these daies? There were neuer halfe so many Masses (though ye take Masse for the cōmunion) as there is in this time.
How Happeneth then, that they do so offen frequent the Sacrament in these days? There were never half so many Masses (though you take Mass for the communion) as there is in this time.
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onlesse the churche were so littell, that it would not receiue the communicants. (As Leo in a certaine epistle mencioneth.) But in your churches ye haue sometime. xx. or. xxx. and yet not twoo communicantes at any of them.
unless the Church were so little, that it would not receive the communicants. (As Leo in a certain epistle mentioneth.) But in your Churches you have sometime. xx. or. xxx. and yet not twoo communicantes At any of them.
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Yée must then confesse either a greate and horrible abuse of the sacrament: or els that your priestes deuocion nowe is muche mor then in yt primatiue church.
The must then confess either a great and horrible abuse of the sacrament: or Else that your Priests devotion now is much mor then in that primitive Church.
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But I answer that you, whiche say wee haue no colour of scripture for that wee herein defende, haue lesse then a light shadow to hide your false assercion in:
But I answer that you, which say we have no colour of scripture for that we herein defend, have less then a Light shadow to hide your false assertion in:
Doo you neuer receiue alone in your mane, but ye hee dryuen for lacke of other? How happeneth then, that in one churche ye shal haue at•one time. vii. or. viij. massing in sundry corners, where they might communicate all together:
Doo you never receive alone in your mane, but you he driven for lack of other? How Happeneth then, that in one Church you shall have at•one time. vii. or. viij. massing in sundry corners, where they might communicate all together:
and there by haue made it a marchandise to bie and fell for your owne gaine? What colour or shadowe haue you for this in the Scripture? Surely, weare my moderation muche more then yours is, I coulde not chuse but terme this, not an itchinge foly,
and there by have made it a merchandise to bye and fell for your own gain? What colour or shadow have you for this in the Scripture? Surely, wear my moderation much more then yours is, I could not choose but term this, not an itching folly,
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The maior is Saincte Ciprian proued at large and much staied vpon in his Epistle, ad ce•isium de sacramento sanguinis, in the beginninge wherof he seemeth to signifie that by inspiracion hee was admonyshed of God, to aduertise men only to doo us Christe did in the institution of his Sacrament.
The mayor is Saint Cyprian proved At large and much stayed upon in his Epistle, ad ce•isium de sacramento Blood, in the begin whereof he seems to signify that by inspiration he was admonished of God, to advertise men only to do us Christ did in the Institution of his Sacrament.
I thought if (saith hee) both godsy and necessary to write, if any man continew in this errour (he meaneth vsing water only in the Sacrament in stede of wine) that he, seing the fighte, doe veturne to the roote and beginninge of the lordes ordinance and institution.
I Thought if (Says he) both godsy and necessary to write, if any man continue in this error (he means using water only in the Sacrament in stead of wine) that he, sing the fight, do veturne to the root and begin of the Lords Ordinance and Institution.
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And thinke not that I doe this vpon my owne phantasie or any humayne iudgement. &c. but when one is charged by the inspiration and commanndmente of god, it is necessary for a faithful seruant to obey:
And think not that I do this upon my own fantasy or any human judgement. etc. but when one is charged by the inspiration and commanndmente of god, it is necessary for a faithful servant to obey:
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Doe you know therefore that we be admonished, that in offeringe the sacrament of the lorde bloud his owne institution should be kepte and no other thinge bee done,
Do you know Therefore that we be admonished, that in offering the sacrament of the lord blood his own Institution should be kept and no other thing be done,
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For therin by Sergius decrée ye breake it into thrée partes: thone of which ye let fall into the wine, which there soked signisieth the body of Christ raysed from death, and sittinge in the glory:
For therein by Sergius Decree you break it into thrée parts: thone of which you let fallen into the wine, which there soaked signisieth the body of christ raised from death, and sitting in the glory:
The seconde argumente out of Sainct Paul is, where to the Corinth { is } he reprehendeth the abuse of the lords Supper brought in by dissension and factions, that weare amonge them.
The seconde argument out of Saint Paul is, where to the Corinth { is } he reprehendeth the abuse of the Lords Supper brought in by dissension and factions, that wear among them.
and therfore exhorteth them to tary vntill the congregation came together, that they might receiue according to Christ { is } institution. That this was.
and Therefore exhorteth them to tarry until the congregation Come together, that they might receive according to christ { is } Institution. That this was.
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When ye come together (saieth he) ye can not eate the Lorde supper, wher firste it is to be noted that to the celebracion of the sacrament they resorted together,
When you come together (Saith he) you can not eat the Lord supper, where First it is to be noted that to the celebration of the sacrament they resorted together,
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In christes supper ye se the maister together with the disciples, the table and the meate common to all, not so muche as Iudas the traitour excluded, one lofe and one cuppe discributed amonge the whole companie.
In Christ's supper you see the master together with the Disciples, the table and the meat Common to all, not so much as Iudas the traitor excluded, one lofe and one cup discributed among the Whole company.
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may not pristes be as iustly blamed, because they séeme in their priuate Masse to disdeine and contempne the people? I wil now therfore conclude with Cyprians wordes.
may not Priests be as justly blamed, Because they seem in their private Mass to disdeine and contemn the people? I will now Therefore conclude with Cyprians words.
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Séeyng then Christe vsed company in ordeinyng the sacramente of that holy feast and supper: Priestes also ought to haue company in ministring the same.
Seeing then Christ used company in ordaining the sacrament of that holy feast and supper: Priests also ought to have company in ministering the same.
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For the aucthoritée of the primatiue churche to confirme that this is ye right vse of the sacramente, I will in this place bringe in onely twoo witnesses:
For the Authority of the primitive Church to confirm that this is the right use of the sacrament, I will in this place bring in only twoo Witnesses:
then breade and the cuppe mixed with water is brought to the chief brother, which after he hath taken geuing praise and thankes vnto the father of all in the name of the sunne and holy ghost,
then bread and the cup mixed with water is brought to the chief brother, which After he hath taken giving praise and thanks unto the father of all in the name of the sun and holy ghost,
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The same forme and maner of celebracion of the sacrament with very little difference is witnessed by Dionisius: who in Ecclesiastica Hierarchia after he hath descriued a few other circumstances,
The same Form and manner of celebration of the sacrament with very little difference is witnessed by Dionysius: who in Ecclesiastica Hierarchy After he hath described a few other Circumstances,
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Woulde a man desire any plainer testimony of the vse of the Lordes supper in the primatiue Churche? Doth not all thynges agre with the institution of christe and example of the Apostle? Is here any coniecture either of the laitée receiuing vnder one kinde? or of sole receiuynge by the priest? or of sacrifienge the body and bloud of Christe for quicke & dead? Is here any worde or ceremony that signifieth suche vse to haue bene at that time? Yet (as I sayd) these men write not of this mattier by the way,
Would a man desire any plainer testimony of the use of the lords supper in the primitive Church? Does not all things agree with the Institution of Christ and Exampl of the Apostle? Is Here any conjecture either of the laitée receiving under one kind? or of sole receiving by the priest? or of sacrifienge the body and blood of Christ for quick & dead? Is Here any word or ceremony that signifies such use to have be At that time? Yet (as I said) these men write not of this matter by the Way,
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Wyl ye therfore say that ye may withoute offence baptise in the name of the father only? If christes institution in baptisme be a sufficient forbidding of the contrary to be vsed:
Wyl you Therefore say that you may without offence baptise in the name of the father only? If Christ's Institution in Baptism be a sufficient forbidding of the contrary to be used:
why should not his wordes and mauer vsed in the supper forbidde you to doe the contrary? Ciprian (as I haue sayde) taketh it for a full prohibition of the contrary:
why should not his words and mauer used in the supper forbid you to do the contrary? Cyprian (as I have said) Takes it for a full prohibition of the contrary:
In recityng the aucthoritie of Chrisostome you brynge in a similitude or comparison, which of how small force they be in prouyng, your learnyng can not be so little,
In reciting the Authority of Chrysostom you bring in a similitude or comparison, which of how small force they be in proving, your learning can not be so little,
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so is it to be wisshed that people were so deuoute, as they woulde dayly receiue their howsill (for so ye terme it.) And yet is not the priest to be letted to receiue,
so is it to be wished that people were so devout, as they would daily receive their howsill (for so you term it.) And yet is not the priest to be letted to receive,
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Beside that ye conclude here only the case of necessitie (whiche healpeth the common vse of your priuate Masse very little.) Ye make your comparison betweene thynges very vnlike and of nature diuers:
Beside that you conclude Here only the case of necessity (which Helpeth the Common use of your private Mass very little.) You make your comparison between things very unlike and of nature diverse:
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But in a christian congregacion to haue some of the people or ministers to cōmunicate orderly with the chiefe minister celebratynge is a thynge so possible,
But in a christian congregation to have Some of the people or Ministers to communicate orderly with the chief minister celebrating is a thing so possible,
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but contrarie to the forme that Christ him self vsed, neither haue wée either aucthoritée or example in the scripture as a sufficient warrant to alter that forme that he vsed and apoincted.
but contrary to the Form that christ him self used, neither have we either Authority or Exampl in the scripture as a sufficient warrant to altar that Form that he used and apoincted.
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All your drifte in this parte is, by alledgyng the corruption of the worlde and slacknesse of deuocion, to signifie, that the people can not bee brought to communicate with the priest:
All your drift in this part is, by alleging the corruption of the world and slackness of devotion, to signify, that the people can not be brought to communicate with the priest:
For hereby ye signifie, that, of necessitie, it apperteineth only to the priest, and (as you wrote before) the people to be lefte free to come as seldome as they wyl.
For hereby you signify, that, of necessity, it appertaineth only to the priest, and (as you wrote before) the people to be left free to come as seldom as they will.
For, sure I am, that neither the institucion of Christ maketh mencion of any oblation or sacrifice to be done by the minister, sauinge only the sacrifice of thankes geuing:
For, sure I am, that neither the Institution of christ makes mention of any oblation or sacrifice to be done by the minister, Saving only the sacrifice of thanks giving:
What significacion haue you in the wordes that christ vsed in ordeining the sacrament, or in the maner of his doynge, that hee then offered him selfe to his father? He did that the next day after him self vpon the crosse,
What signification have you in the words that Christ used in ordaining the sacrament, or in the manner of his doing, that he then offered him self to his father? He did that the next day After him self upon the cross,
and not that wee should offer it vp to god the father. He sayde, Take, eate, doo this in remembrance of mee, he said not, geue, offer, and sacrifice for your sinnes.
and not that we should offer it up to god the father. He said, Take, eat, do this in remembrance of me, he said not, give, offer, and sacrifice for your Sins.
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Wherfore it must néedes bee that ye sucked this erroure oute of the phrases and fashions of speakynge, that the olde fathers vsed, peruertinge the same to a farre worse sence, then euer they ment it.
Wherefore it must needs be that you sucked this error out of the phrases and fashions of speaking, that the old Father's used, perverting the same to a Far Worse sense, then ever they meant it.
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This thinge more euidently to declare, it behoueth to consider, that the fathers vpon dyuers occasions vsed to call the Sacrament, by the name of an oblation or sacrifice.
This thing more evidently to declare, it behooves to Consider, that the Father's upon Diverse occasions used to call the Sacrament, by the name of an oblation or sacrifice.
Hereof partely it came to passe, (the erample beinge taken firste of the common people) that the admynistracion of the Sacramente, of this offeringe, was called an oblation.
Hereof partly it Come to pass, (the erample being taken First of the Common people) that the admynistracion of the Sacrament, of this offering, was called an oblation.
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We must make offeringe vp to god and in all thinges be found thankfull to god our maker, offeringe vp to him the firste fruites of his creatures, in pure mynde, in faith without hipocrisie, in firme hope, in feruent loue.
We must make offering up to god and in all things be found thankful to god our maker, offering up to him the First fruits of his creatures, in pure mind, in faith without hypocrisy, in firm hope, in fervent love.
An other occasion that the doctours vsed those termes of sacrifienge and offeringe was, that in celebration of the Sacramente, they had prayer for all states,
an other occasion that the Doctors used those terms of sacrifienge and offering was, that in celebration of the Sacrament, they had prayer for all states,
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Wherby it may appeare (as Sainct Augustine also signifieth) that the fathers called euery good and godly action a sacrifice, weare it priuate or common.
Whereby it may appear (as Saint Augustine also signifies) that the Father's called every good and godly actium a sacrifice, wear it private or Common.
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sometime, celebrating the, remembrance of that great sacrifice, accordinge to the misteries instituted by him selfe, bothe geuing thankes to god for our saluation,
sometime, celebrating thee, remembrance of that great sacrifice, according to the Mysteres instituted by him self, both giving thanks to god for our salvation,
Here he speaketh of the sacrament and maketh no mencion of any sacrifice propitiatory, but only of the sacrifice of remembrance by prayer and thankes geuinge,
Here he speaks of the sacrament and makes no mention of any sacrifice propitiatory, but only of the sacrifice of remembrance by prayer and thanks giving,
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For he saieth, we sacrifice, celebratinge the remembrance of that greate sacrifice. &c. Chrisoston•e likewise Hom. 17 ad Ebreos. After he hath in many wordes declared, that there is no more but one sacrifice once offered by Christe for euer, he addeth this.
For he Saith, we sacrifice, celebrating the remembrance of that great sacrifice. etc. Chrisoston•e likewise Hom. 17 and Ebreos. After he hath in many words declared, that there is no more but one sacrifice once offered by Christ for ever, he adds this.
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Belene stedfastly (saieth he) and in no wapee doubte, that the only begotten of God, beyng made flesh for vs, did offer him selfe a sactifice to God as a sweete sauour.
Belene steadfastly (Saith he) and in no wapee doubt, that the only begotten of God, being made Flesh for us, did offer him self a sactifice to God as a sweet savour.
and to whom now, together with the father and holy ghost, with whom he hath one diuinitie, the churche ceaseth not to offer the sacrifice of breade and wine. (He saieth not of the body and bloud of Christ.) For in those carnall sacrifices there was the figure of the fleshe of Christ:
and to whom now, together with the father and holy ghost, with whom he hath one divinity, the Church ceases not to offer the sacrifice of bread and wine. (He Saith not of the body and blood of christ.) For in those carnal Sacrifices there was the figure of the Flesh of christ:
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for them that be abset, for those that were before vs, and for those that shall come after vs. The same Chrisostome also calleth this their offerynge, Rationalem cultum, whiche yee can not interprete a propitiatorie sacrifice,
for them that be abset, for those that were before us, and for those that shall come After us The same Chrysostom also calls this their offering, Rationalem cultum, which ye can not interpret a propitiatory sacrifice,
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Wherfore your Masse can not iustly be called the Lord { is } supper, but a peruertyng of the institution and ordināce, cleane to an other purpose and ende,
Wherefore your Mass can not justly be called the Lord { is } supper, but a perverting of the Institution and Ordinance, clean to an other purpose and end,
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The Lordes supper is a remembrance of one perfit sacrifice: wherby we were once sufficiently purged from sinne, and continually are reuiued by ye same.
The lords supper is a remembrance of one perfect sacrifice: whereby we were once sufficiently purged from sin, and continually Are revived by you same.
The Lordes supper is to be distributed in the common assembly of his people, to teache vs the communion whereby wes all be knitte together in Christe Iesu. The vse of your sacrifice in priuate Masse séemeth, by the priestes se•le receiuyng, to be a testimony of seperacion,
The lords supper is to be distributed in the Common assembly of his people, to teach us the communion whereby wes all be knit together in Christ Iesu. The use of your sacrifice in private Mass Seemeth, by the Priests se•le receiving, to be a testimony of separation,
This haue I spoken more largely of this mattier, then either I purposed, or you gaue me occasion by any proofe brought for the confirmation of your sacrifice.
This have I spoken more largely of this matter, then either I purposed, or you gave me occasion by any proof brought for the confirmation of your sacrifice.
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Secondly, that I might declare the grounde of your reason to be very weake, where ye affirme the priest to bee bounde of duitie to sacrifice for him selfe and for the people.
Secondly, that I might declare the ground of your reason to be very weak, where you affirm the priest to be bound of duitie to sacrifice for him self and for the people.
there is no man to communicate with vs. As touching those wordes that ye moste beate vpon, There is no man to communicate, by them to proue, that they receiued only at Easter,
there is no man to communicate with us As touching those words that the most beat upon, There is no man to communicate, by them to prove, that they received only At Easter,
as well as he mencioned before at Easter? howe can ye then gather by Chrisostome that there was no company to receiue but only at Easter? but what if I declare oute of Chrisostome, that some vsed to receiue oftener times? wyll not your collection vppon this place, that ye séeme to triumphe vpon, appere to be of very smal force.
as well as he mentioned before At Easter? how can you then gather by Chrysostom that there was no company to receive but only At Easter? but what if I declare out of Chrysostom, that Some used to receive oftener times? will not your collection upon this place, that you seem to triumph upon, appear to be of very small force.
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But these prescripte times were ordeined onely for them, that vsed seldome to come to the sacrament, that at the leaste, they should receiue at those times,
But these prescript times were ordained only for them, that used seldom to come to the sacrament, that At the jest, they should receive At those times,
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That forte, because they were not so many as they should haue hene, and as Chrisostome wished for to haue in his church, to exaggerate their slacknes, hee saieth, There is none to bée partaker with be.
That fort, Because they were not so many as they should have hene, and as Chrysostom wished for to have in his Church, to exaggerate their slackness, he Saith, There is none to been partaker with be.
This to proue true, although I coulde bringe in many examples and testimonies, yet I wil content my selfe with one, that your selfe putteth me in minde of, in recitinge afterwarde the.14. cannon of Nicene counsell:
This to prove true, although I could bring in many Examples and testimonies, yet I will content my self with one, that your self putteth me in mind of, in reciting afterward the.14. cannon of Nicene counsel:
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nor receiue before them, but after in order as it séemed more conuenient. Loke for further declaration of this, in examininge the cannon that ye afterwarde alledge.
nor receive before them, but After in order as it seemed more convenient. Look for further declaration of this, in examining the cannon that you afterward allege.
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Wherefore this your place of Chrisostome doth not sufficiently iustifie sole receiuinge by one minister, as ye would haue it seeme to do, for proufe of your priuate masse.
Wherefore this your place of Chrysostom does not sufficiently justify sole receiving by one minister, as you would have it seem to do, for proof of your private mass.
But ye wil here dally vpon the proper signification of this worde, Quotidianum, euery day without intermission, euery day daily sacrifice, euery day masse, euery day at the aulter.
But you will Here dally upon the proper signification of this word, Quotidian, every day without intermission, every day daily sacrifice, every day mass, every day At the alter.
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Then must you geue mee leaue as extremely to vrge these two sillables Frustra, in vaine is oure oblation, in vaine is our sacrificing, to no profite or commoditie is our masse, in vayne wée stande at the aulter,
Then must you give me leave as extremely to urge these two syllables Frustra, in vain is our oblation, in vain is our sacrificing, to no profit or commodity is our mass, in vain we stand At the alter,
For in déede there is no thinge, that hathe any colour for it, but only the wreasted argument, that you wrynge out of the sound of these wordes, Quotidiana obsatio, and Nemo est qui parbicipet: by the tone parte gatheringe, that the people then vsed to receiue only at Easter, as they doo now:
For in deed there is no thing, that hath any colour for it, but only the wrested argument, that you wring out of the found of these words, Quotidian obsatio, and Nemo est qui parbicipet: by the tone part gathering, that the people then used to receive only At Easter, as they do now:
For in déede hee doth not there blame the generall maner of all without exception, but of a number, that addicted theim selfe either to Easter, or some other times,
For in deed he does not there blame the general manner of all without exception, but of a number, that addicted them self either to Easter, or Some other times,
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when prayers and thankes geuing were made, when bread and wine were (as the maner was) offered vp for the communion: (whiche were the first partes of celebration as appereth in Iustine) then he was compelled either to suffer the ministers and clergie to receiure alone:
when Prayers and thanks giving were made, when bred and wine were (as the manner was) offered up for the communion: (which were the First parts of celebration as appeareth in Justin) then he was compelled either to suffer the Ministers and Clergy to receiure alone:
For the preparinge to communion, the prayers and thankes geuinge for that purpose, the offeringe vp of breade and wine, the callinge of the people to it, may séeme to be in vayns,
For the preparing to communion, the Prayers and thanks giving for that purpose, the offering up of bread and wine, the calling of the people to it, may seem to be in vains,
Therfore it appeareth by those wordes, both how necessary hee estemed the peoples communion, and also that hee toke not Oblationē for a propitiatorie sacrifice, as you doo.
Therefore it appears by those words, both how necessary he esteemed the peoples communion, and also that he took not Oblationē for a propitiatory sacrifice, as you do.
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For then he could not haue sayde frustra habetur. To this purpose it maketh, that the same Chrisostome in the same place so earnestly calleth the people to it: as he saith to them:
For then he could not have said frustra habetur. To this purpose it makes, that the same Chrysostom in the same place so earnestly calls the people to it: as he Says to them:
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By this earnest maner of calling, therfore it may appere how muche this doctour toke it to be of the substance of the Sacrament, that a number should be partakers of it:
By this earnest manner of calling, Therefore it may appear how much this Doctor took it to be of the substance of the Sacrament, that a number should be partakers of it:
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and leauinge out eatinge, drinking, distributinge, doinge in remembrance of Christes death, (as they haue done) deuise a a new fashion of their owne braynes more fitte for the churche to vse,
and leaving out eating, drinking, distributing, doing in remembrance of Christ's death, (as they have done) devise a a new fashion of their own brains more fit for the Church to use,
The Apostle also more constantly and stoutly declareth in an other place, that the disciples ought to obserue and doo the same thynges, that their maister taught and dyd before them: saying in this wise.
The Apostle also more constantly and stoutly Declareth in an other place, that the Disciples ought to observe and do the same things, that their master taught and did before them: saying in this wise.
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then that Christe hath once taught vs already, and the Apostle declared to vs: I meruayle how this came in vse to doo contrary to that whiche Christe dyd.
then that Christ hath once taught us already, and the Apostle declared to us: I marvel how this Come in use to do contrary to that which Christ did.
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Therfore I say with Cyprian, that in alteryng the sacrament, either by soole receiuyng or géeuing vnder one kinde, ye worship God in vayne with mens tradicions.
Therefore I say with Cyprian, that in altering the sacrament, either by fool receiving or géeuing under one kind, you worship God in vain with men's traditions.
The mattier that Cyprian wrote against (that is) vsinge of water alone in the Sacramente in stéede of wyne, might perhappes, in case of necessitie, be graunted to some, that of nature coulde not abide wyne.
The matter that Cyprian wrote against (that is) using of water alone in the Sacrament in steed of wine, might perhaps, in case of necessity, be granted to Some, that of nature could not abide wine.
That many circumstancies of place, person, and time, may be altered or taken away for good considerations, without impeachement to the right vse of the sacramentes, wée graunte you:
That many Circumstances of place, person, and time, may be altered or taken away for good considerations, without impeachment to the right use of the Sacraments, we grant you:
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The very proporcion and likenesse of that ceremonie of the olde lawe, in place whereof the Lordes supper is ordeined, may teache vs the right vse of it.
The very proportion and likeness of that ceremony of the old law, in place whereof the lords supper is ordained, may teach us the right use of it.
The Passeouer was a solempne eatynge of the Pascale lambe together in remembrance of Godes great benefite of their deliuerance and passyng of his plague from them.
The Passover was a solemn eating of the Pascale lamb together in remembrance of God's great benefit of their deliverance and passing of his plague from them.
euen a lyke sacramente, a supper, a feast, wherin they, beyng together, might celebrate the remembrance of their redemption, by his body and bloud géeuen and shed for them.
even a like sacrament, a supper, a feast, wherein they, being together, might celebrate the remembrance of their redemption, by his body and blood géeuen and shed for them.
but an ornament to commend it or set it forth, and might be altered by spirytual gouernours? Although the Iewes weare very bolde in altering many ceremonies,
but an ornament to commend it or Set it forth, and might be altered by spirytual Governors? Although the Iewes wear very bold in altering many ceremonies,
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Likewyse the sacrament of the body is not so muche of the substance, but that vpon considerations the church may commonly omitte it, and minister the wine only.
Likewise the sacrament of the body is not so much of the substance, but that upon considerations the Church may commonly omit it, and minister the wine only.
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and other considerations, for which ye may omit breade, and vse wine only: when bothe those considerations come together, then may you take away bothe breade and wine,
and other considerations, for which you may omit bread, and use wine only: when both those considerations come together, then may you take away both bread and wine,
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What is this but, with exceding arrogancie, to make your spiritual gouernours omnipotent in alteringe and transposinge the sacramentes by Christ ordeyned? Howe much more comely weare it for you reuoking your errour: to say with Ciprian.
What is this but, with exceeding arrogancy, to make your spiritual Governors omnipotent in altering and transposinge the Sacraments by christ ordained? Howe much more comely wear it for you revoking your error: to say with Cyprian.
geuinge thankes for that hee, instructinge vs what we ought to doe hereafter, doth pardon vs for that offence, which by simplicitie we haue before committed.
giving thanks for that he, instructing us what we ought to do hereafter, does pardon us for that offence, which by simplicity we have before committed.
Who séeth not, that prayer and the Lords supper in the vse of them be nothinge like? That praier is a common action, which, done of one alone, maye stretch to the benefite and commoditée of many, we haue aucthority in ye scripture, and example in Christe him selfe:
Who seeth not, that prayer and the lords supper in the use of them be nothing like? That prayer is a Common actium, which, done of one alone, may stretch to the benefit and commodity of many, we have Authority in you scripture, and Exampl in Christ him self:
In other good workes and godly exercises it is not so. And yet you recken them vp together, as though they weare in all poyntes like. As praier, baptisme;
In other good works and godly exercises it is not so. And yet you reckon them up together, as though they wear in all points like. As prayer, Baptism;
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Christe taught vs, and his holy worde commaundeth vs, to pray on for another. But he neuer saide receiue the communion, or bée baptised one for another.
Christ taught us, and his holy word commandeth us, to pray on for Another. But he never said receive the communion, or been baptised one for Another.
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It is called of the Grekes, NONLATINALPHABET, and may be defined to be a societie of a company or multitude, whiche, by certaine lawes and couenantes, are all partakers of one thinge.
It is called of the Greeks,, and may be defined to be a society of a company or multitude, which, by certain laws and Covenants, Are all partakers of one thing.
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whiche consisteth in this, that they are all partakers of one saluation, and all members of one mistical body, the head wherof is christ Iesu. The lawes & couenantes, wherby wée be all thus knit and ioigned together, are the word of God,
which Consisteth in this, that they Are all partakers of one salvation, and all members of one mystical body, the head whereof is Christ Iesu. The laws & Covenants, whereby we be all thus knit and ioigned together, Are the word of God,
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By the Lordes supper wée haue from time to time, heauenly foode ministred vnto vs, and, as it were, liuely spirite from the head of this body Iesu Christe.
By the lords supper we have from time to time, heavenly food ministered unto us, and, as it were, lively Spirit from the head of this body Iesu Christ.
He therfore, that is baptised in India, hath the same baptisme that wee haue: and, beyng graffed into the same body, hath communion with vs in baptisme.
He Therefore, that is baptised in India, hath the same Baptism that we have: and, being graffed into the same body, hath communion with us in Baptism.
You will say perhaps, you doo not inferre this vpon the argument of generall communion, but onely that they, whiche be in diuers places, may communicate.
You will say perhaps, you do not infer this upon the argument of general communion, but only that they, which be in diverse places, may communicate.
then a priest, sayinge Masse in our Lady chappel in Paules at sixe a clocke in the morning, doth communicate with him, that doth the like in Iesus Churche at.ix. of the clocke the next day:
then a priest, saying Mass in our Lady chapel in Paul's At sixe a clock in the morning, does communicate with him, that does the like in Iesus Church At ix of the clock the next day:
and yet should not one celebrate it alone, seinge Christes example sheweth, and the Apostles interpretation declareth, that in ministringe of it, there shousd bee also a particuler communion (as I may terme it) betwene the members of one congregation.
and yet should not one celebrate it alone, sing Christ's Exampl shows, and the Apostles Interpretation Declareth, that in ministering of it, there shousd be also a particular communion (as I may term it) between the members of one congregation.
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Wherfore the grauntinge of communitie betweene all christian men in vse of the sacrament, doth make nothinge against this, that Christ ordeined it to be receiued as a feast with company:
Wherefore the granting of community between all christian men in use of the sacrament, does make nothing against this, that christ ordained it to be received as a feast with company:
so the multitude of a christian congregacion, receiuyng together the Lordes supper, are made mēbers of one body, knit together in like faith and charitie,
so the multitude of a christian congregation, receiving together the lords supper, Are made members of one body, knit together in like faith and charity,
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The like effecte is doone in baytisme (as S. Augustine witnesseth In sermone ad infantes ) and wée be graffed into Christ and made partakers of his body and bloud.
The like Effect is done in baytisme (as S. Augustine Witnesseth In sermon and Infants) and we be graffed into christ and made partakers of his body and blood.
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More ouer the ecclesiastical histories declare, when Chrisostome was banisshed, muche against the peoples heartes, that diuers of them woulde not communicate with his successour,
More over the ecclesiastical histories declare, when Chrysostom was banished, much against the peoples hearts, that diverse of them would not communicate with his successor,
For what other thyng is excommunication (as touchyng the externall acte) then a debarryng of the partie to receiue with other of the same congregacion,
For what other thing is excommunication (as touching the external act) then a debarring of the party to receive with other of the same congregation,
Because wée necessarily require a numbre together, you presse vpon the mattier very earnestly, and thinke, by your dalliyng foly, to driue vs to many folies.
Because we necessarily require a numbered together, you press upon the matter very earnestly, and think, by your dalliyng folly, to driven us to many follies.
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as it were therby to portray vnto you a perfit plat of a christian communion (for so it pleaseth you to dally in this weightie mattier.) I answer that wée se in the Euangelistes and S. Paule, that Christe tooke breade and gaue with it his body:
as it were thereby to portray unto you a perfect plate of a christian communion (for so it Pleases you to dally in this weighty matter.) I answer that we see in the Evangelists and S. Paul, that Christ took bread and gave with it his body:
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As for the kinde of breade or wine, the fashion or quantitie of place, the conueniencie of time, the increasing or deminisshynge of the number or company, wee recken amonge those thinges that may be altered (as you say) by spiritual gouernours.
As for the kind of bread or wine, the fashion or quantity of place, the conveniency of time, the increasing or deminisshynge of the number or company, we reckon among those things that may be altered (as you say) by spiritual Governors.
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and bodies withoute fashion, quātity or measure, with other suche highe misteries, whiche neither scripture, nor any necessitie of reason doth teache.
and bodies without fashion, quantity or measure, with other such high Mysteres, which neither scripture, nor any necessity of reason does teach.
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Firste, for soole receiuinge, it behoueth to consider, that in the time of Tertullian, Ciprian, and all that age, the church was in much trouble, vexacion, and persecution:
First, for fool receiving, it behooves to Consider, that in the time of Tertullian, Cyprian, and all that age, the Church was in much trouble, vexation, and persecution:
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so that they could not haue their ecclesiasticall assembles and congregations for common praier and ministracion of the sacrament { is } so conueniently,
so that they could not have their ecclesiastical assembles and congregations for Common prayer and ministration of the sacrament { is } so conveniently,
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But nor these places, nor any other, that you be able to alledge, can proue, that there were ministers or priestes priuately celebratinge with other standinge bie, that receiued not.
But nor these places, nor any other, that you be able to allege, can prove, that there were Ministers or Priests privately celebrating with other standing bye, that received not.
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But you should bringe such places, as might proue, that the common minister, in place of the lordes supper, dyd celebrate and receiue alone, other beinge present and not partaking.
But you should bring such places, as might prove, that the Common minister, in place of the Lords supper, did celebrate and receive alone, other being present and not partaking.
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2. boke, we reade, that Sinodus Gangrensis condemned Eustathium for that, contrary to the ecclesiastical rules, he graunted licence to cōmunicate at home.
2. book, we read, that Sinodus Gangrensis condemned Eustathium for that, contrary to the ecclesiastical rules, he granted licence to communicate At home.
and to other persons vntollerable and Impia prophanatio. If you dilygently examine that maner of receauinge in theyr houses at that tyme, which ye thinke to make with you, you shal wel perceiue it not a lytle to make against you.
and to other Persons untolerable and Impia prophanatio. If you diligently examine that manner of receiving in their houses At that time, which you think to make with you, you shall well perceive it not a little to make against you.
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Did they not in this point declare a necessitée of partakinge, if it were possible at euery ministratiō? In so muche that when their place would not receiue all,
Did they not in this point declare a necessity of partaking, if it were possible At every ministration? In so much that when their place would not receive all,
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But how necessary that time of the churche dyd thinke it to bee, that the people should bee partakers with the prieste, that Epistle signitieth, that you attribute to Anacletus: where it is this wrytten.
But how necessary that time of the Church did think it to be, that the people should be partakers with the priest, that Epistle signitieth, that you attribute to Anacletus: where it is this written.
After consecration (saith hee) let all be partakers, which wil not be excommunicate. For so the Apostles decreed, and the holy churche of rome obserued.
After consecration (Says he) let all be partakers, which will not be excommunicate. For so the Apostles decreed, and the holy Church of room observed.
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The same wordes by some are attributed to Calixte. Doo you not heare excommunication threatned to all, that doo not communicate? Doo you not heare that the Apostles decreed it,
The same words by Some Are attributed to Calixte. Do you not hear excommunication threatened to all, that do not communicate? Doo you not hear that the Apostles decreed it,
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and the holy church of Rome obserued it? And wil you yet stand so stubburnly in your assertion, that there was priuate masse in the primatiue church? Wil you haue better witnesses of that time then Iustine,
and the holy Church of Rome observed it? And will you yet stand so stubbornly in your assertion, that there was private mass in the primitive Church? Wil you have better Witnesses of that time then Justin,
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then Dionisius, then Anacletus, then Calixte, then the other holy fathers before mencioned? would Ambrose haue blamed the people for not resortinge to the sacramente dayly? Would Chrisostome haue saide, that they, which be present and not receiue, doo wickedly and impudently? Would they haue commonly vsed (as Iustine saith) to send to those that could not be present,
then Dionysius, then Anacletus, then Calixte, then the other holy Father's before mentioned? would Ambrose have blamed the people for not resorting to the sacrament daily? Would Chrysostom have said, that they, which be present and not receive, do wickedly and impudently? Would they have commonly used (as Justin Says) to send to those that could not be present,
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For Christes bodie (say you) is not without his bloud, & therfore he, that receiueth his body vnder forme of breade, receiueth his bloud also, Per concomitantiam. Therfore you say the people is not defrauded of that Christes will was, that they shoulde receiue,
For Christ's body (say you) is not without his blood, & Therefore he, that receiveth his body under Form of bread, receiveth his blood also, Per concomitantiam. Therefore you say the people is not defrauded of that Christ's will was, that they should receive,
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But it should haue béen your obedience to Goddes worde to consider, that the communion of Christ { is } body and bloud is not the worke of nature in this Sacrament.
But it should have been your Obedience to Goddess word to Consider, that the communion of christ { is } body and blood is not the work of nature in this Sacrament.
You alledge a perpetuall societie of the body and bloud, whiche ye call Concomitantiam. It is your owne deuise and not Christes promisse in his sacrament.
You allege a perpetual society of the body and blood, which you call Concomitantiam. It is your own devise and not Christ's promise in his sacrament.
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But in the sacramente, whiche is no naturall worke, how will you assure me, that the flesh and bloud is ioinctly signified and geuen to mee vnder one parte onely:
But in the sacrament, which is no natural work, how will you assure me, that the Flesh and blood is ioinctly signified and given to me under one part only:
seyng Christ himself, who knew, as wel as you, the ioincte condicion of his flesh and bloud, did notwithstandyng, in twoo sundrie external thinges, geue the communion of them to his disciples.
sing christ himself, who knew, as well as you, the ioincte condition of his Flesh and blood, did notwithstanding, in twoo sundry external things, give the communion of them to his Disciples.
Yea but Cyprian saith the preceptes of this sacrament bee Grandia & magna. And if he be called least in the kingdome of god, that altereth one of the least commaundementes, what shalbe sayd of him, that taketh awaye these great and weightie commaundementes.
Yea but Cyprian Says the Precepts of this sacrament be Grandia & Magna. And if he be called least in the Kingdom of god, that altereth one of the least Commandments, what shall said of him, that Takes away these great and weighty Commandments.
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But you take away the one parte cleane, and leaue out the wordes and moste comfortable promysses of Christes bloud to bee shed for vs. If then Cyprian were so earnest againste those vsers of water in stéede of wyne,
But you take away the one part clean, and leave out the words and most comfortable promises of Christ's blood to be shed for us If then Cyprian were so earnest against those users of water in steed of wine,
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how muche more earnest woulde hee haue ben againste this maner, if it had ben common in his time? Here, those places that you recite may séeme to helpe you,
how much more earnest would he have been against this manner, if it had been Common in his time? Here, those places that you recite may seem to help you,
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you alledge afterwarde oute of Ambrose the hystorie of Satyrus his brother, that hanged the sacrament aboute his necke in a stole (as you call it,) when, in a shipwarke, he leaped into the sea:
you allege afterward out of Ambrose the history of Satyr his brother, that hanged the sacrament about his neck in a stole (as you call it,) when, in a shipwarke, he leapt into the sea:
whiche must néed { is } be informe of bread onely, because neither our brayne nor yours can deuyse, which way wyne can be in such an instrument inclosed.
which must need { is } be inform of bred only, Because neither our brain nor yours can devise, which Way wine can be in such an Instrument enclosed.
or séeke to confirme others by suche féeble proofes and argumentes? Is not this a stronge reason thinke you? Satyrus S. Ambrose brother, in extreame danger of shipwrake, purposing to leape into the sea, tooke of one, that was in the ship, only the sacramente of the Lordes body,
or seek to confirm Others by such feeble proofs and Arguments? Is not this a strong reason think you? Satyr S. Ambrose brother, in extreme danger of shipwreck, purposing to leap into the sea, took of one, that was in the ship, only the sacrament of the lords body,
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But (as Ambrose signifieth) this Satyrus at that time was, but, as I might say, a nouice in Christian religion, not so farre instructed in the faith that hee was as then admitted to the communion of the Lordes supper.
But (as Ambrose signifies) this Satyr At that time was, but, as I might say, a novice in Christian Religion, not so Far instructed in the faith that he was as then admitted to the communion of the lords supper.
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Neither is there any thinge to the contrary, but that the same persons, whiche had the sacrament of our Lordes body, had also aboute them the sacrament of the bloud, either in some conuenient vessel,
Neither is there any thing to the contrary, but that the same Persons, which had the sacrament of our lords body, had also about them the sacrament of the blood, either in Some convenient vessel,
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and to doo those things by simplicitie vpon zeale at a time, that in the common vse of the sacramentes they coulde not doo accordinge to the worde of god.
and to do those things by simplicity upon zeal At a time, that in the Common use of the Sacraments they could not do according to the word of god.
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because they could not conueniently cary wine with them, that they might go as nighe to Christes institution as might be, they would soke the sacrament of our Lord { is } body in the bloud.
Because they could not conveniently carry wine with them, that they might go as High to Christ's Institution as might be, they would soak the sacrament of our Lord { is } body in the blood.
Neither those thinges, which some did (as Ciprian termeth it) vppon simplicitie by sufferance, should be brought as testimonies, what the church either then did,
Neither those things, which Some did (as Cyprian termeth it) upon simplicity by sufferance, should be brought as testimonies, what the Church either then did,
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If any of our predicessours either by ignorance or simplicitie did not obserue and kepe that, whiche the lorde by his example and instruction did teach vs to doe:
If any of our predecessors either by ignorance or simplicity did not observe and keep that, which the lord by his Exampl and instruction did teach us to do:
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But we cannot be forgeuen, which be instructed & admonyshed by the lorde to doe as he dyd. &c. The godly and holy fathers dyd beare in many poyntes with the zeale and simplicitie of a number, in that tyme.
But we cannot be forgiven, which be instructed & admonished by the lord to do as he did. etc. The godly and holy Father's did bear in many points with the zeal and simplicity of a number, in that time.
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Wherfore those examples cannot bee brought iustly to proue the common maner vsed in the primatiue churche, which by manifest testimonies I wyll a lytle after declare to haue be farre otherwyse in the same times, that these thinges were done.
Wherefore those Examples cannot be brought justly to prove the Common manner used in the primitive Church, which by manifest testimonies I will a little After declare to have be Far otherwise in the same times, that these things were done.
I wyll rechearse and shewe you some of ye mattier, which shalbe directly applied to that maladie and disease, that you haue brought to the right vse of the lordes holy sacrament.
I will rechearse and show you Some of you matter, which shall directly applied to that malady and disease, that you have brought to the right use of the Lords holy sacrament.
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You hard before rehearsed oute of Iustine declaringe the maner of the church of Rome in his time, that both bread and wyne were geuen to companies of the towne and contrey,
You hard before rehearsed out of Justin declaring the manner of the Church of Room in his time, that both bred and wine were given to companies of the town and country,
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Here is manifestly declared, that such as were absent, and receiued at home in theyr houses, had both kindes sent vnto them, contrary to your coniecture vpon Tertullian, where (you say) one kinde only is mencioned and therefore receiued.
Here is manifestly declared, that such as were absent, and received At home in their houses, had both Kinds sent unto them, contrary to your conjecture upon Tertullian, where (you say) one kind only is mentioned and Therefore received.
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or bowe make we them meete for the cuppe of martirdome, if wee do not first by communion admitte them to drinke the cuppe of the lorde? Is not this a playne testimony, what maner of mynistracion was vsed in Cyprians time? And wyll you then, vpon a surmise, gather the contrary? If ye rede this father in all places, where he speaketh of the sacrament:
or bow make we them meet for the cup of martyrdom, if we do not First by communion admit them to drink the cup of the lord? Is not this a plain testimony, what manner of mynistracion was used in Cyprians time? And will you then, upon a surmise, gather the contrary? If you rede this father in all places, where he speaks of the sacrament:
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you shall finde nothinge more common, then, Bibi sanguinem Christi. How wisie thou (saith Ambrose to Theodosius the Emperour) with those hands receiue the holy body of our lord? how wilte thou be so bolde, with thy mouth to be partaker of the lords bloud.
you shall find nothing more Common, then, Bibi sanguinem Christ. How wisie thou (Says Ambrose to Theodosius the Emperor) with those hands receive the holy body of our lord? how wilt thou be so bold, with thy Mouth to be partaker of the Lords blood.
because your mocking head could not deuise how to cary wyne in a stole? and yet they of that time (as ye may perceiue by dipping a linnen cloth in the sacrament of the bloud) had deuysed which way it might be done. But to our purpose.
Because your mocking head could not devise how to carry wine in a stole? and yet they of that time (as you may perceive by dipping a linen cloth in the sacrament of the blood) had devised which Way it might be done. But to our purpose.
As often as ye shall eate. &c. What profit haue those wordes (saith he)? That we easing and drinking may be perpetually mindeful of him that died for vs:
As often as you shall eat. etc. What profit have those words (Says he)? That we easing and drinking may be perpetually mindful of him that died for us:
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Why doo you then (so plainly againste Chrisostome) make difference of dignitie betwéene the priest and the people? Is not this, which Chrisostom speaketh agaynst, one of the chiefest reasons, that you haue for the geuynge of one kynde to the people? But S. Paule to Timothie and Titus, declareth other causes that shoulde make the order of ministerie honorable:
Why do you then (so plainly against Chrysostom) make difference of dignity between the priest and the people? Is not this, which Chrysostom speaks against, one of the chiefest Reasons, that you have for the giving of one kind to the people? But S. Paul to Timothy and Titus, Declareth other Causes that should make the order of Ministry honourable:
Cyprian againe, in the same sermon De lapsis, that you afterward aledge, and the same Hystorie, sheweth, that all the companie of lay men and women tooke the sacrament of the Lordes cuppe and dronke of it in order, one after an other.
Cyprian again, in the same sermon De Lapsis, that you afterwards allege, and the same History, shows, that all the company of lay men and women took the sacrament of the lords cup and drunk of it in order, one After an other.
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But I feare I shal séeme to moste men to commit muche foly, in that I stande so longe with aucthorities to proue that thinge, whiche of it selfe is most manyfest:
But I Fear I shall seem to most men to commit much folly, in that I stand so long with authorities to prove that thing, which of it self is most manifest:
that is, that in the primatiue churche the only maner, in the common celebracion of the sacrament, was, that all receiued vnder bothe kindes of breade and wyne.
that is, that in the primitive Church the only manner, in the Common celebration of the sacrament, was, that all received under both Kinds of bread and wine.
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Seynge therefore Iustine saieth, that on sundaies breade and wine consecrated were distributed to companies of the towne and countrey, seynge Gelasius calleth it sacrilege to deuide the sacrament;
Sing Therefore Justin Saith, that on sundaies bread and wine consecrated were distributed to companies of the town and country, sing Gelasius calls it sacrilege to divide the sacrament;
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seyng all the residue of the fathers of al countreyes and all ages of the primatiue churche agrée to the same, were it not more then willfull blindenesse not to se, that holy men at that time in celebracion of the sacramente ministred both partes to the people, accordyng to Christes institucion and the doctrine of S. Paule to the Corinth? Were it not almoste desperate stubburnesse to perswade the contrarie to ignorant people,
sing all the residue of the Father's of all countries and all ages of the primitive Church agree to the same, were it not more then wilful blindness not to see, that holy men At that time in celebration of the sacrament ministered both parts to the people, according to Christ's Institution and the Doctrine of S. Paul to the Corinth? Were it not almost desperate Stubbornness to persuade the contrary to ignorant people,
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For then perhaps such, as of simplicitie depende vpon your aucthorities, woulde haue thought, that you had had farre better prouision for your defence in so weightie mattiers.
For then perhaps such, as of simplicity depend upon your authorities, would have Thought, that you had had Far better provision for your defence in so weighty mattiers.
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But it foloweth not therevpon, but that a man may deny without any impudencie at all, either, that wée haue any testimonie in the worde of God to iustifie it,
But it Followeth not thereupon, but that a man may deny without any impudency At all, either, that we have any testimony in the word of God to justify it,
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This will I doo not with my owne wordes, but S. Augustines in his epistle to Hierome. I confesse that I haue learned to attribute this reuerēce and honour only to the canonical scriptures, to beleeue stedfastly without controuersie all, that is written in them.
This will I do not with my own words, but S. Augustine's in his epistle to Jerome. I confess that I have learned to attribute this Reverence and honour only to the canonical Scriptures, to believe steadfastly without controversy all, that is written in them.
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Whiche doctrine, I thinke, you wil not say riseth of true interpretacion of the scripture. The same Clement, Strom. 2. &. 6. writeth, that mens soules are transformed into Angels,
Which Doctrine, I think, you will not say Riseth of true Interpretation of the scripture. The same Clement, Strom. 2. &. 6. Writeth, that men's Souls Are transformed into Angels,
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Iustine, Lactantius, Iraeneus and other wrote, that good men, after the resurrection, shoulde liue a thousande yeres in all ioye before Christe shoulde come to iudgement.
Justin, Lactantius, Irenaeus and other wrote, that good men, After the resurrection, should live a thousande Years in all joy before Christ should come to judgement.
Cyprian would haue Heretikes to be rebaptised, and speaketh so dangerously of them that are fallen from the faith, that he might séeme to geue some occasion to Nouatians heresie.
Cyprian would have Heretics to be Rebaptized, and speaks so dangerously of them that Are fallen from the faith, that he might seem to give Some occasion to Novatians heresy.
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but onely to signifie, that, when wee measure their doctrine by Goddes wordes, or teache not in all poinctes as they did, wée be not so muche to be blamed as that men should counte vs,
but only to signify, that, when we measure their Doctrine by Goddess words, or teach not in all points as they did, we be not so much to be blamed as that men should count us,
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For if God hath suffered them to erre in so weightie mattiers as is before mencioned: (although for good cause I haue omitted the greatest) it may be also, that they haue taught amisse in some other lighter thinges,
For if God hath suffered them to err in so weighty mattiers as is before mentioned: (although for good cause I have omitted the greatest) it may be also, that they have taught amiss in Some other lighter things,
Therefore who doth not muche honour them, & (when trueth constreineth) with reuerence go from their opinion, is scantly worthie the name of a christian mā.
Therefore who does not much honour them, & (when truth constraineth) with Reverence go from their opinion, is scantly worthy the name of a christian man.
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Neuerthelesse, I think not ye contrary but, if they had séene, what abuses and supersticions woulde haue folowed vpon diuers thynges, that they either taught,
Nevertheless, I think not you contrary but, if they had seen, what Abuses and superstitions would have followed upon diverse things, that they either taught,
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vndoubtedly they woulde either haue recanted those thinges, as Augustine did many, or els would haue made a more perfit interpretacion of their mindes.
undoubtedly they would either have recanted those things, as Augustine did many, or Else would have made a more perfect Interpretation of their minds.
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This much by the way haue I spoken of my opinion in the doctours, so muche as I can, to eschew the malicious reporte, that your sorte is moste readie to spreade of vs in this mattier.
This much by the Way have I spoken of my opinion in the Doctors, so much as I can, to eschew the malicious report, that your sort is most ready to spread of us in this matter.
And so muche the more, for that diuers of your sorte haue alleaged oute of the same doctour in his worke Thesaurus, certaine wordes for the supremicie of the Byshop of Rome, whiche are not there to be found.
And so much the more, for that diverse of your sort have alleged out of the same Doctor in his work Thesaurus, certain words for the supremicie of the Bishop of Room, which Are not there to be found.
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This vniust fatheryng of your owne late deuised phantasies, vpon the auncient doctours and writers of the churche, may cause vs iustly to suspecte the residue of your doyng.
This unjust fatheryng of your own late devised fantasies, upon the ancient Doctors and writers of the Church, may cause us justly to suspect the residue of your doing.
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Hee, that wrote the sermon De caena domini in Cyprian, saieth plainely of the sacrament, Recipitur non includitur. At is receiued, it is not inclosed or Butte vp.
He, that wrote the sermon De Cena domini in Cyprian, Saith plainly of the sacrament, Recipitur non includitur. At is received, it is not enclosed or Butt up.
Isychius vpon Leuiticum, at large declareth how that in his time, if the ministers and people were not able to eate vp so muche as was consecrated, the restdue was bourned,
Isychius upon Leviticus, At large Declareth how that in his time, if the Ministers and people were not able to eat up so much as was consecrated, the restdue was bourned,
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If ye will not beléene vs, why doo you not beléeue your owne? Will you say, with your testimonie of Ciril, that Origine was madde, that Isychius was madde? Or if ye be not afrayde to say it of them:
If you will not beléene us, why do you not believe your own? Will you say, with your testimony of Cyril, that Origine was mad, that Isychius was mad? Or if you be not afraid to say it of them:
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if the people be absente, and, when the sacramente is prepared, either will not or can not come to receiue, Clement then sayeth not that the priest consecratyng should forbeare,
if the people be absent, and, when the sacrament is prepared, either will not or can not come to receive, Clement then Saith not that the priest consecrating should forbear,
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and yet out of necessitie the same commaundementes ought necessarely to bee obserued and kepte. The Iewes were commaunded on the Sabboth day to doo no bodely or toylinge worke.
and yet out of necessity the same Commandments ought necessarily to be observed and kept. The Iewes were commanded on the Sabbath day to do no bodily or toiling work.
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<2^PAGES^MISSING> boye to soke the sacramente consecrated in a licour not consecrated: And especially if he were of your opinion in transsubstantiacion.
<2^PAGES^MISSING> boy to soak the sacrament consecrated in a liquour not consecrated: And especially if he were of your opinion in transubstantiation.
Who seeth not by this testimony that all the ministers vsed commonly to receiue together with the byshop beynge present? Here was not my lorde at the high aulter,
Who sees not by this testimony that all the Ministers used commonly to receive together with the bishop being present? Here was not my lord At the high alter,
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that it might appere to bee a heauenly feast or supper, and not a worke or sacritice to be done of one to the behoufe and benefite of a number, that stande by and loke on.
that it might appear to be a heavenly feast or supper, and not a work or sacritice to be done of one to the behoof and benefit of a number, that stand by and look on.
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it saith, Corpus christi porrigant, and mencioneth not, Sanguinem The like you shall reade in many places of the olde fathers, where one part only is mencioned when they speake of the priestes receiuinge. And yet bothe are vnderstanded.
it Says, Corpus Christ porrigant, and mentioneth not, Sanguinem The like you shall read in many places of the old Father's, where one part only is mentioned when they speak of the Priests receiving. And yet both Are understanded.
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I meruaile why you make suche courtesy to recite this for a proufe of one kinde then vsed, seynge the best of your collections for this matter be euen of the same sorte.
I marvel why you make such courtesy to recite this for a proof of one kind then used, sing the best of your collections for this matter be even of the same sort.
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Is not your coniecture out of Tertullian, Cyprian, Ambrose, euen in the same maner gathered? For that they séeme to mencion but the one parte onely? And yet you make such a bragge vpon them as you count all such to lacke discretion as wil not by and by without contradiction yelde vnto them, and acknowledge them vnuincible.
Is not your conjecture out of Tertullian, Cyprian, Ambrose, even in the same manner gathered? For that they seem to mention but the one part only? And yet you make such a brag upon them as you count all such to lack discretion as will not by and by without contradiction yield unto them, and acknowledge them unvincible.
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and yet you wyl vrge the words of the fathers, as though euery sillable in them were in like maner to be scanned as the wordes of the bible, written wholly by the inspiration of the holy ghost.
and yet you will urge the words of the Father's, as though every Syllable in them were in like manner to be scanned as the words of the Bible, written wholly by the inspiration of the holy ghost.
that the sacrament is to hee ministred in no other maner then Christe him selfe did vse it? Did hée dally when hee pressed vpon the matter in this wise? If in that sacrifice, that is Christe him selfe, none but Christ is to hee folowed:
that the sacrament is to he ministered in no other manner then Christ him self did use it? Did he dally when he pressed upon the matter in this wise? If in that sacrifice, that is Christ him self, none but christ is to he followed:
how much lesse may we alter so great and weightie commaundements, as these are, so nigh touchinge the sacrament of the lordes passion and our redemption:
how much less may we altar so great and weighty Commandments, as these Are, so High touching the sacrament of the Lords passion and our redemption:
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and as it were by a tourmentour constreininge it, by such meanes as it coulde, dyd confesse the gilte of the facte, (meaninge the eatinge of the Idolle offeringe) And,
and as it were by a tourmentour constreininge it, by such means as it could, did confess the guilt of the fact, (meaning the eating of the Idol offering) And,
How than can you gather by the extraordinarie chaunce, whiche you recited before out of the same Tertullian and Cyprian, that the laytie then vsed to receiue the one kinde of breade onely:
How than can you gather by the extraordinary chance, which you recited before out of the same Tertullian and Cyprian, that the laity then used to receive the one kind of bread only:
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The childe you say in this hystorie receiued but wine only, and so one kinde. That you make probable, because the childe, that had receiued the Idoll offeryng, was not
The child you say in this history received but wine only, and so one kind. That you make probable, Because the child, that had received the Idol offering, was not
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In like maner you doo a litle after in Luther and Melancthon, saying that they compte it a thing indifferent to communicate the laye people vnder one kinde:
In like manner you do a little After in Luther and Melanchthon, saying that they Compte it a thing indifferent to communicate the say people under one kind:
There is a little treatise of Melancthons intituled De vsuintegri sacramēti: in which ye shall finde diuers argumentes concludyng the necessitie of bothe kindes,
There is a little treatise of Melanchthons entitled De vsuintegri sacramēti: in which you shall find diverse Arguments concluding the necessity of both Kinds,
out of the auncient doctours nor sentence nor halfe sentence, that doeth directly proue eyther your priuate masse or communion vnder one kinde to the laitie.
out of the ancient Doctors nor sentence nor half sentence, that doth directly prove either your private mass or communion under one kind to the laity.
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and shiftes of extremitie, to proue a continual or general rule to bée obserued in the church of Christe, contrary to the example and order by hym selfe apointed:
and shifts of extremity, to prove a continual or general Rule to been observed in the Church of Christ, contrary to the Exampl and order by him self appointed:
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<2^PAGES^MISSING> ben faire clokes for them to holde their peace, where as in déede they haue in these poinctes or litle or nothing to say for them selfe.
<2^PAGES^MISSING> ben fair cloaks for them to hold their peace, where as in deed they have in these points or little or nothing to say for them self.
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For both your reasons and aucthorities by you vttered, though they séeme to your selfe neuer so strōg, doth rather bewray your parte, the• pithely defend it.
For both your Reasons and authorities by you uttered, though they seem to your self never so strong, does rather bewray your part, the• pithily defend it.
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Therefore the thunderinge in of the aucthoritie of the holy catholike church, the prescription of.xv C. yeres, the consent of moste parte of Christendome, the holines and learninge of so many godly fathers,
Therefore the thundering in of the Authority of the holy catholic Church, the prescription of xv C Years, the consent of most part of Christendom, the holiness and learning of so many godly Father's,
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as hath béen these ix. C. yeres, the age and sclender learninge of those that stande against you, doth nothinge at all either feare vs or moue vs to suspect that doctrine, which, by Christes aucthoritie and witnesse of the Apostles, wée know to be trewe.
as hath been these ix. C. Years, the age and slender learning of those that stand against you, does nothing At all either Fear us or move us to suspect that Doctrine, which, by Christ's Authority and witness of the Apostles, we know to be true.
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And wyll you then so falsely beare men in hand that the whole churche was always of your opinion? But be it so, that the moste part of christendome.ix. C. yeres hathe taught as you doo.
And will you then so falsely bear men in hand that the Whole Church was always of your opinion? But be it so, that the most part of Christendom ix C. Years hath taught as you do.
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if such argument { is } of continuance of time and multitude of persons should be rules to gouerne mens conscience? Might not the gentiles haue alledged the like againste the Apostles and their successours? Might not they haue saide,
if such argument { is } of Continuance of time and multitude of Persons should be rules to govern men's conscience? Might not the Gentiles have alleged the like against the Apostles and their Successors? Might not they have said,
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but thousande of yeares? that the whole worlde helde with them? that the wise and profound learned Philosophers defended their doctrine? that the Apostles were but new heretikes.
but thousande of Years? that the Whole world held with them? that the wise and profound learned Philosophers defended their Doctrine? that the Apostles were but new Heretics.
Ideotes and vnlearned persons? that their doctrine came from the dotinge people of the Iewes? that the gods declared their dyspleasure and indignations against the new teachinge of Christ, with seditions, tumultes, warres, plagues, dearthes, tempestious weatheringes,
Idiots and unlearned Persons? that their Doctrine Come from the doting people of the Iewes? that the God's declared their displeasure and indignations against the new teaching of christ, with seditions, tumults, wars, plagues, dearths, tempestuous weatheringes,
yea dyd they not alledge against the prophetes, continuance of time and multitude of doctours, priestes and Rabins? Were they not hundredes to one poore Micheas? Did they not the like in Christes time? Did they not beate vpon the longe continuance of Moyses law:
yea did they not allege against the Prophets, Continuance of time and multitude of Doctors, Priests and Rabins? Were they not hundredes to one poor Micheas? Did they not the like in Christ's time? Did they not beat upon the long Continuance of Moses law:
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First, how necessarie indéede it is for a christian man to beléeue the faieth of the holy church, it may by this appere, that to be borne to euerlastyng life and saluacion, to be made the sonne of God and heire of the kyngdom of heauen, of necessitie wée must be conceiued in the wombe of the churche of Christe,
First, how necessary indeed it is for a christian man to believe the faith of the holy Church, it may by this appear, that to be born to everlasting life and salvation, to be made the son of God and heir of the Kingdom of heaven, of necessity we must be conceived in the womb of the Church of Christ,
Therfore if wée couitte to haue entrance into the kyngdome of God, and be partakers of the graces and promisses of Christe, I confesse wée must remaine in the faith of his holy churche.
Therefore if we couitte to have Entrance into the Kingdom of God, and be partakers of the graces and promises of Christ, I confess we must remain in the faith of his holy Church.
<2^PAGES^MISSING> Forsooth the scripture speaketh of the churche of Christe twoo waies. Sometime as it is indéede before God, & not knowen alway to mans iudgemente.
<2^PAGES^MISSING> Forsooth the scripture speaks of the Church of Christ twoo ways. Sometime as it is indeed before God, & not known always to men judgement.
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Euen so in this churche the euill and corrupted doth sometime beare downe the better sorte, that a man can hardly iudge, whiche be the true members of the churche, whiche are not.
Even so in this Church the evil and corrupted does sometime bear down the better sort, that a man can hardly judge, which be the true members of the Church, which Are not.
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God hath had this his externall churche from the beginnyng of the worlde, instructed by his holy worde, instructed by his Patriar•es and Prophetes, instructed by hi• apoincted law and ceremonies:
God hath had this his external Church from the beginning of the world, instructed by his holy word, instructed by his Patriar•es and prophets, instructed by hi• apoincted law and ceremonies:
But did it alway continue in florishyng estate? Did it alway in like maner retaine the truth of Gods morde, that it was taught in the beginnyng? Did it alway cherish and mainteine suche ministers,
But did it always continue in flourishing estate? Did it always in like manner retain the truth of God's morde, that it was taught in the beginning? Did it always cherish and maintain such Ministers,
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and leste onely the Tribe of Iuda? In what state was it afterwarde, when ye same one Tribe of Iuda vnder diuers kinges sell to Idolatrie? In what state was it,
and lest only the Tribe of Iuda? In what state was it afterward, when you same one Tribe of Iuda under diverse Kings fell to Idolatry? In what state was it,
when Elias pitifully complained, that he onely was lefte, and all other were departed from God? Where was the enternall face of the church at that times In what state was it when Esaias, Ieremie, Ezechiel, and al the Prophetes of God were persecuted & put to death.
when Elias pitifully complained, that he only was left, and all other were departed from God? Where was the internal face of the Church At that times In what state was it when Isaiah, Ieremie, Ezechiel, and all the prophets of God were persecuted & put to death.
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I pray you was not Iurie then called the people of God? Had they not at that time the lawe of God? Did not they vse his ceremonies? Did not they bragge and make their auaunte that they coulde not erre? that the trueth coulde not departe from the mouthe of their priestes and doctours? that they had the temple of God, the temple of God? Yes certainely they had euen then the law of God.
I pray you was not Jury then called the people of God? Had they not At that time the law of God? Did not they use his ceremonies? Did not they brag and make their avaunt that they could not err? that the truth could not depart from the Mouth of their Priests and Doctors? that they had the temple of God, the temple of God? Yes Certainly they had even then the law of God.
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They did not refraine to tel euen those, that faib they were the chosen people of god, the electe vineyarde of God, the citie and habitacion of God, that they had fortaken the law of God, that they folowed their owne deuises, that they worshipped God in vayne with their owist tradicions.
They did not refrain to tell even those, that faib they were the chosen people of god, the elect vineyard of God, the City and habitation of God, that they had fortaken the law of God, that they followed their own devises, that they worshipped God in vain with their owist traditions.
For when Christ him selfe came, for whose cause God had so preserued that people, they sayd, that they had Moyses lawe, that they were the séede of Abraham, that they were the chosen people and true churche of God:
For when christ him self Come, for whose cause God had so preserved that people, they said, that they had Moses law, that they were the seed of Abraham, that they were the chosen people and true Church of God:
Shal we thinke therfore, that the Apostles were not of the church? or rather shal we indge, that them, which haue the gouernemente of the law and sarr•mentes;
Shall we think Therefore, that the Apostles were not of the Church? or rather shall we Indge, that them, which have the government of the law and sarr•mentes;
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as they may refuse the true doctrine of gods lawe, and persecute the ministors and setters forth of the same• There lacked not gods promisses amonge the Iewes.
as they may refuse the true Doctrine of God's law, and persecute the Ministers and setters forth of the same• There lacked not God's promises among the Iewes.
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Euen in like maner we haue to thinke that he wyll doo in this time, seinge •ée hath of the same forewarned vs. For euen as the olde lawe and religion of the Iewes was a shadow and paterne of the true relygion brought in by Christ so the state and maner of that church may well resemble the state of Christes church in the latter time:
Eve in like manner we have to think that he will do in this time, sing •ée hath of the same forewarned us For even as the old law and Religion of the Iewes was a shadow and pattern of the true Religion brought in by christ so the state and manner of that Church may well resemble the state of Christ's Church in the latter time:
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seinge they, that in the pompe and glorious face of the worlde séeme to haue the gouernmente of the churche, doth refuse vs and take vs to bee none of the church.
sing they, that in the pomp and glorious face of the world seem to have the government of the Church, does refuse us and take us to be none of the Church.
Here perhappes some curious conscience wil be pricked, and thinke it is not likely, that god of his great mercy would suffer his churche and so great a number of people to erre so many hundred yeares.
Here perhaps Some curious conscience will be pricked, and think it is not likely, that god of his great mercy would suffer his Church and so great a number of people to err so many hundred Years.
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Pola••y, and opened his knowledge to only one little people of the Iewes? Is it not merue•lous, that, of.xij. partes of that one people, he suffered.x. and a halse to forsake him at one time:
Pola••y, and opened his knowledge to only one little people of the Iewes? Is it not merue•lous, that, of xij parts of that one people, he suffered x and a halse to forsake him At one time:
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Be not these thinges beyonde the likelyhoddes of mans féeble reason? Nay •••e not say with S. Paule, O vnscru••sse and Botomlesse deepenes of his diu•••e iudgemente,
Be not these things beyond the likelyhoddes of men feeble reason? Nay •••e not say with S. Paul, Oh vnscru••sse and Botomlesse deepens of his diu•••e judgement,
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and leaue to séeke what is likely in his ddinges? The Iewes were his chosen people, from whiche the sausour of the world• should rise ▪ They had among them his law a••• ceremonies, his aboundant promisses and sacramentes.
and leave to seek what is likely in his ddinges? The Iewes were his chosen people, from which the sausour of the world• should rise ▪ They had among them his law a••• ceremonies, his abundant promises and Sacraments.
e the true churche in so triumphant glory of the world, as it shal make euen the greatest Emperours and Princes of the earth in worlde, might & power subiect vnto it? Truly that agreeth not with Christes prephecie,
e the true Church in so triumphant glory of the world, as it shall make even the greatest emperors and Princes of the earth in world, might & power Subject unto it? Truly that agreeth not with Christ's prephecie,
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nor the warninges of the Apostels, wherein they tel vs of the greate daunger, that shal happen in the churche, towarde the ende of the worlde ▪ That it may not be thought to be my euely phantasie that the aduersarie of Christe shall in the latter daies sit in the churche,
nor the Warnings of the Apostles, wherein they tell us of the great danger, that shall happen in the Church, toward the end of the world ▪ That it may not be Thought to be my euely fantasy that the adversary of Christ shall in the latter days fit in the Church,
How could a man more plainely declare that the true churche both then was and after shuld be vexed and persecuted by those, that, in sight and power of external gouernment, were taken for the church.
How could a man more plainly declare that the true Church both then was and After should be vexed and persecuted by those, that, in sighed and power of external government, were taken for the Church.
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If I should ••eite out of authour•, and Histories al such testimonies as serueth to this purpose, I shoulde be a greate deale longer then this place requireth.
If I should ••eite out of authour•, and Histories all such testimonies as serveth to this purpose, I should be a great deal longer then this place requires.
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that in the latter time they shall beare the name of the churche, whiche in déede be not the right churche? wée must booke diligently that wée gene not ouer to euery power that wil claime the name of the churche,
that in the latter time they shall bear the name of the Church, which in deed be not the right Church? we must book diligently that we gene not over to every power that will claim the name of the Church,
The right churche therfore as the folde of Christe hath the true worde of God and vse of his sacramentes accordyng to the same, for the due markes therof.
The right Church Therefore as the fold of Christ hath the true word of God and use of his Sacraments according to the same, for the due marks thereof.
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Therefore what shall wee dot? shall wee seeke if in our owne wordes, or in the wordes of out forde Iesus Christe the head therof? & thinke wee ought rather to seeke it in his wordes, that is trueth, and best knoweth hie body.
Therefore what shall we dot? shall we seek if in our own words, or in the words of out ford Iesus Christ the head thereof? & think we ought rather to seek it in his words, that is truth, and best Knoweth high body.
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In like maner hath Chrisostome in Mat. cap. 14. wherfore (saith he) in this th•• off chaif•ou• men ought to resorte to the se•••• ture•, •ecause in this time since theresie is come into the churches, there can be no other proufe of true christianitie,
In like manner hath Chrysostom in Mathew cap. 14. Wherefore (Says he) in this th•• off chaif•ou• men ought to resort to the se•••• ture•, •ecause in this time since theresie is come into the Churches, there can be no other proof of true christianity,
Quianee nos, ppterea dicimus nobis credere oportere quod in ecclesia Christ sumus. &c. Wherfore a Christian conscience, that in this daungerous time wyll walke safely, must take the word of god to be his only state:
Quianee nos, ppterea dicimus nobis Believe oportere quod in Church christ sumus. etc. Wherefore a Christian conscience, that in this dangerous time will walk safely, must take the word of god to be his only state:
So saith Hierom. That hath not aucthoritie in the scripture, in euen as lighily contenmed, as it is spoken, And againe in psal. 86. Consider what hee saith.
So Says Hieronymus That hath not Authority in the scripture, in even as lighily contenmed, as it is spoken, And again in Psalm. 86. Consider what he Says.
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Which were in it, not which be in it. So that, except the Apostles, whatsoeuer should be spoken afterwarde, let it bee cutte of: let it not haue authoritie.
Which were in it, not which be in it. So that, except the Apostles, whatsoever should be spoken afterward, let it be Cut of: let it not have Authority.
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Let he aske Peter (saith Ambrose ) let vs aske Paule if we wyl finde out the trueth And Christ him selfe biddeth vs searche the scriptures and not presume of our owne spirite vppon vnwritten verities beside the worde, of god.
Let he ask Peter (Says Ambrose) let us ask Paul if we will find out the truth And christ him self bids us search the Scriptures and not presume of our own Spirit upon unwritten verities beside the word, of god.
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What credite is to bee geuen to those that so speake, Chrisostome teacheth vs. As Christ (saith he) when hee vnderstode that they sayde commonly of hym that hee was a deceiuour, to purge him selfe of that suspicion witnessed that hee spake not of him selfe,
What credit is to be given to those that so speak, Chrysostom Teaches us As christ (Says he) when he understood that they said commonly of him that he was a deceiver, to purge him self of that suspicion witnessed that he spoke not of him self,
These wordes of Chrisostome cleane ouerthroweth ye ground of all your vnwriten verities beside the worde of god, much more such doctrines as be expresly against the same,
These words of Chrysostom clean Overthroweth you ground of all your unwriten verities beside the word of god, much more such doctrines as be expressly against the same,
Wherfore neither your multitude of sundry nacions, and great learned clerkes, neither the continuance of.ix. C. yeres (if it were so,) neyther the name of your holy mother the churche, which you so often repete, can bee any sure proufe of your doctrines without the expresse testimonies of the scripture to witnes the same.
Wherefore neither your multitude of sundry Nations, and great learned Clerks, neither the Continuance of ix C. Years (if it were so,) neither the name of your holy mother the Church, which you so often repete, can be any sure proof of your doctrines without the express testimonies of the scripture to witness the same.
in this place also you indeuour to debase and imminishe his estimation, extenuatinge his age, continuance in study of holy scripture and maner of life, in comparison of your late holy fathers, which you doo greatly extolle.
in this place also you endeavour to debase and imminishe his estimation, extenuating his age, Continuance in study of holy scripture and manner of life, in comparison of your late holy Father's, which you do greatly extol.
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and such other, whom in like maner you disdaine, shal shewe more true diuinitie, then a many of your hoare heades and greate reading clerkes, as you thinke:
and such other, whom in like manner you disdain, shall show more true divinity, then a many of your hoar Heads and great reading Clerks, as you think:
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thereby signif•yng that we misdoubted the almightie power of god in bringinge that to passe, whiche he promiseth or speaketh in the institution of his sacramentes.
thereby signif•yng that we misdoubted the almighty power of god in bringing that to pass, which he promises or speaks in the Institution of his Sacraments.
We graunte as fréely as you with Dauid, That god hath done whatsoeuer his 〈 … 〉 We graūt with the holy fathers, that 〈 ◊ 〉 greate and merueilous mutation and change is made in this sacrament by the power of gode worde.
We grant as freely as you with David, That god hath done whatsoever his 〈 … 〉 We grant with the holy Father's, that 〈 ◊ 〉 great and marvelous mutation and change is made in this sacrament by the power of good word.
as you without necessitie doo make in this sacramente? Yea and of such sorte as be contrary to the maner of all those miracles, that the holy scrinture mencioneth to bee wrought by his diuine power.
as you without necessity do make in this sacrament? Yea and of such sort as be contrary to the manner of all those Miracles, that the holy scrinture mentioneth to be wrought by his divine power.
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And when gods power had miraculously tourned these thinges, that, into the whiche they were tourned, reserued and kepte that nature, that was agreable to suche a thinge.
And when God's power had miraculously turned these things, that, into the which they were turned, reserved and kept that nature, that was agreeable to such a thing.
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and so the Catholike church (say you) doth teache vs. Wherefore vpon this veritie once setled, diuers other thinges must of necessitie followe by drifte of reason,
and so the Catholic Church (say you) does teach us Wherefore upon this verity once settled, diverse other things must of necessity follow by drift of reason,
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This is my body, that the naturall substance of the breade, which Christ toke, was turned into the naturall substance of the very body, that Christ dyed in:
This is my body, that the natural substance of the bread, which christ took, was turned into the natural substance of the very body, that christ died in:
In what authour was it euer redde that Sun•, es, fui, the verbe substantiue might be iuterpreted by transsubstantiare? Or if the proprietie of the worde wil not in any wise admit that sence:
In what author was it ever red that Sun•, es, fui, the verb substantive might be iuterpreted by transsubstantiare? Or if the propriety of the word will not in any wise admit that sense:
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Or what prouses can you bringe by conference of other places of the scripture, that these •••des in this place ought of necessitie in this maner to be interpreted.
Or what prouses can you bring by conference of other places of the scripture, that these •••des in this place ought of necessity in this manner to be interpreted.
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If neyther the proprietie of the tounge can beare the sence, nor you can bring any examples or prouses out of the word• of god, where vpon men in so weightis a matter may stay their consciences is it not extreame crueltie in you, vnder payne of damnasion to compel them to beleue it? Here you will burden vs with the aucthoritie of the holy catholike churche:
If neither the propriety of the tongue can bear the sense, nor you can bring any Examples or prouses out of the word• of god, where upon men in so weightis a matter may stay their Consciences is it not extreme cruelty in you, under pain of damnasion to compel them to believe it? Here you will burden us with the Authority of the holy catholic Church:
but that they gathered the same, either by examples of ye like, or els by grounded reasons, taken out of the scripture, declared, that of necessitie it must be so vnderstanded.
but that they gathered the same, either by Examples of you like, or Else by grounded Reasons, taken out of the scripture, declared, that of necessity it must be so understanded.
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Therfore when the churche decreed against the Arrians and other Heretikes, that in this sentence, In principio erat verbum, the woorde was in the beginnynge, that Verbum was to be taken for the person of the sonne of God:
Therefore when the Church decreed against the Arians and other Heretics, that in this sentence, In principio erat verbum, the word was in the beginning, that Verbum was to be taken for the person of the son of God:
or if you can bringe for it no such testimony oute of the worde of god, it is euydent that you doo wrongfully father this interpretatiō vpon ye holy catholike churche,
or if you can bring for it not such testimony out of the word of god, it is evident that you do wrongfully father this Interpretation upon you holy catholic Church,
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But mistically, sacramentally, figuratiuely, not really and accordyng to the naturall substance. For this interpretacion wée haue a number of examples out of the canonicall scriptures. God, speakynge of circumsicion, saieth: This is my couenante.
But mystically, sacramentally, figuratively, not really and according to the natural substance. For this Interpretation we have a number of Examples out of the canonical Scriptures. God, speaking of Circumcision, Saith: This is my Covenant.
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And yet was circumsicion not the couenante indéede, but the signe & testimonie, wherby they were assured to be the people of God and partakers of his promisses.
And yet was Circumcision not the Covenant indeed, but the Signen & testimony, whereby they were assured to be the people of God and partakers of his promises.
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yet the very wordes, whiche the spirit of God by singuler prouidence hath vsed in the Euangelist and S. Paule, doeth manifestly leade vs vnto this sence, rather then to that you haue deuised.
yet the very words, which the Spirit of God by singular providence hath used in the Evangelist and S. Paul, doth manifestly lead us unto this sense, rather then to that you have devised.
Whiche can not be otherwise vnderstande, but that this sacramēt is a testimonie or pledge of his laste will and gifte of our saluacion confirmed by his moste precious bloud.
Which can not be otherwise understand, but that this sacrament is a testimony or pledge of his laste will and gift of our salvation confirmed by his most precious blood.
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This interpretacion and meanyng of Christes wordes, which wée gather by conference with other places of holy scripture, is confirmed also by the consent of the aunciente fathers in many places.
This Interpretation and meaning of Christ's words, which we gather by conference with other places of holy scripture, is confirmed also by the consent of the ancient Father's in many places.
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First I will beginne with Augustine contra Adimantum cap. 12. There it appereth that Adimantus vsed Moyses wordes, Sanguis est anima, trumake this sonde argument.
First I will begin with Augustine contra Adamantum cap. 12. There it appeareth that Adamantius used Moses words, Sanguis est anima, trumake this sonde argument.
The same exposition Tertullian maketh moste euidently in hys forth booke againste Martion. Panem (inquit) acceptum & distributum discipulis corpus suum illum fecit: Hoc est corpus meum dicendo: Hoc est, figura corporis mei.
The same exposition Tertullian makes most evidently in his forth book against Martion. Bread (inquit) acceptum & distributum discipulis corpus suum Ilum fecit: Hoc est corpus meum dicendo: Hoc est, figura corporis mei.
His purpose was there to proue against Martion that Christ had a true body in deds because in the sacrament hee ordeyned the signe or figure of his body, and therfore afterward he addeth.
His purpose was there to prove against Martion that christ had a true body in Deeds Because in the sacrament he ordained the Signen or figure of his body, and Therefore afterwards he adds.
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23. Epistle to Bonifacius. Si (inquit) sacramenta similitudinem quandam earum rerum, quarum sunt sacramenta, non haberent, omnino sacramenta non essent.
23. Epistle to Boniface. Si (inquit) Sacraments similitudinem quandam earum rerum, Whom sunt Sacraments, non haberent, Omnino Sacraments non essent.
Ex hac autem similitudine plerum { que } rerum ipsarum nomina sortiuntur. Sicut ergo secundum quendam modum sacramentum corporis Christi corpus Christi est:
Ex hac autem Similitude plerum { que } rerum ipsarum nomina sortiuntur. Sicut ergo secundum quendam modum sacramentum corporis Christ corpus Christ est:
Sicut de ipso Baptismo Apostolus, Consepulti (inquit) sumus Christo per baptismum in mortem. Non ait, sepulturam significamus, sed pror sus (inquit) consepulti sumus.
Sicut de ipso Baptismo Apostles, Consepulti (inquit) sumus Christ per Baptism in mortem. Non ait, sepulturam significamus, sed prior sus (inquit) consepulti sumus.
And the offeringe of the fleash, which is done with the priestes hands, is called the passion, the death, the crucifiynge of Christ, not in veritie of the thinge, but in a signifiynge mistery.
And the offering of the Flesh, which is done with the Priests hands, is called the passion, the death, the crucifying of christ, not in verity of the thing, but in a signifying mystery.
The glose in expounding these words of Augustine, saith, this. Caeleste sacramentum, quod vere repraesentat Christi carnem dicitur corpus Christi, sed improprie: vnde dicitur: suo modo:
The gloze in expounding these words of Augustine, Says, this. Celestial sacramentum, quod vere Represents Christ Carnem dicitur corpus Christ, sed improprie: vnde dicitur: Sue modo:
To this I wil adde Chrisostome, Operis imperfecti Homil. 11. Si, inquit, vasa sanctificata transferre ad priuatos vsus peceatum est, in quibus non est verum corpus Christi,
To this I will add Chrysostom, Operis imperfecti Homily 11. Si, inquit, vasa sanctificata transfer and priuatos vsus Peccatum est, in quibus non est verum corpus Christ,
sed misterium corporis Christi continetur, quanto magis vasa corporis nostri. &c. If (saieth hee) it be sinne to transferre holy vessels vnto priuate vses, in whiche is not the true body of Christ,
sed misterium corporis Christ continetur, quanto magis vasa corporis Our. etc. If (Saith he) it be sin to transfer holy vessels unto private uses, in which is not the true body of christ,
how muche lesse should wee. &c. What can more plainly declare ye figuratiue sence of those word { is } of christ, hoc est corpus meū then that Chrisostome saieth, in whiche vessels is not the very body, but the mistery of it.
how much less should we. etc. What can more plainly declare you figurative sense of those word { is } of Christ, hoc est corpus meū then that Chrysostom Saith, in which vessels is not the very body, but the mystery of it.
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For if those wordes were litterally to bee vnderstanded (as you say) then should the holy vessels that conteyne the sacramentes haue in them, not only the mistery of Christes body and bloud, but his very body really in dede. Which Chrisostome denieth. In the.
For if those words were literally to be understanded (as you say) then should the holy vessels that contain the Sacraments have in them, not only the mystery of Christ's body and blood, but his very body really in deed. Which Chrysostom Denieth. In thee.
Ante benedictionem verborū caelestium alia species nominatur, Post consecrationem corpus Christi significatur. Our Lorde Iesus crieth, this is my body.
Ante benedictionem verborū Celestial Alias species nominatur, Post consecrationem corpus Christ Signify. Our Lord Iesus cries, this is my body.
Ideo in similitudinem quidem accipis sacramentum, sed verae naturae gratiam virtutem { que } assequeris Therefore thou receiuest the sacrament as a similitude,
Ideo in similitudinem quidem accipis sacramentum, sed Verae naturae gratiam virtutem { que } assequeris Therefore thou receivest the sacrament as a similitude,
that suffred for vs and was crucified vpon the crosse, and haue our soules fed and norished with the same to euerlastinge lyfe. Origine vppon Mathew saieth.
that suffered for us and was Crucified upon the cross, and have our Souls fed and nourished with the same to everlasting life. Origine upon Matthew Saith.
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Panis sanctificatus iuxta id, quod habet materiale, in ventrem abit, & in sesessum encitur. &c. The sanctified bread (saith he) according to that it hath material, passeth into the bealy,
Panis Sanctificatus Next id, quod habet material, in ventrem abit, & in sesessum encitur. etc. The sanctified bred (Says he) according to that it hath material, passes into the bealy,
whiche no yll man canne eate. &c. Here note you, firste, that Origine saieth that the mattier of the consecrated breade of the sacrament passeth into the bealy and is auoyded out, expresly against• your interpretacion of Christes wordes, wherby ye say the breade is transsubstantiate,
which no ill man can eat. etc. Here note you, First, that Origine Saith that the matter of the consecrated bread of the sacrament passes into the bealy and is avoided out, expressly against• your Interpretation of Christ's words, whereby you say the bread is Transubstantiate,
and no mattier of it left• but onely accidencies. Secondly that he calleth the sacrament, Typicum & symbolicum corpus, the typicall and figuratiue body.
and no matter of it left• but only accidences. Secondly that he calls the sacrament, Typical & symbolicum corpus, the typical and figurative body.
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Wherfore Origine with this one sentence teareth of diuers of your counterfaited Labels, that you stitche to Christes testamentes by drifte of reason, without the warrant of his holy worde.
Wherefore Origine with this one sentence teareth of diverse of your counterfeited Labels, that you stitch to Christ's Testaments by drift of reason, without the warrant of his holy word.
More ouer Austine de doctrina Christ. lib. 3. cap. 9. After he hath declared, that in the new Testamente God hath lefte vnto his people but few sacramentes and ceremontes,
More over Augustine de Doctrina christ. lib. 3. cap. 9. After he hath declared, that in the new Testament God hath left unto his people but few Sacraments and cerements,
In whiche (saith he) as, is folow the letter, and to take the sygure for those thynges, that are signified by them, in a poincie of seruile infirmitie:
In which (Says he) as, is follow thee Letter, and to take the sygure for those things, that Are signified by them, in a poincie of servile infirmity:
wherby you doo binde vs to a seruile & litterall sence of this worde, Js, and in suche forte take the signes of this sacramente for the thinges signified,
whereby you do bind us to a servile & literal sense of this word, Jesus, and in such fort take the Signs of this sacrament for the things signified,
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as you affirme breade and wine (whiche S. Augustine and the other Doctours call the externall signes) cleane to be tourned into the body & bloud of Christ.
as you affirm bread and wine (which S. Augustine and the other Doctors call the external Signs) clean to be turned into the body & blood of christ.
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The same Augustine contra Adimārum Manich. The Lorde faieth, this is my bobie, when he gaue the signe of his body. Also vpon the. 98. psal. he speaketh in this maner.
The same Augustine contra Adimārum Manich The Lord faith, this is my bobie, when he gave the Signen of his body. Also upon thee. 98. Psalm. he speaks in this manner.
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Wyll you not yet vnderstand, from whence our men receiued this interpretacion? will you not yet perceiue, that wée sucked not it out of our owne singers,
Wyll you not yet understand, from whence our men received this Interpretation? will you not yet perceive, that we sucked not it out of our own singers,
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but were led vnto it by the testimonies of holy scriptures and teachyng of these aucient fathers? Will you not cease vniustly to bourden vs, that wée cauill and dally vpon titles and sillables:
but were led unto it by the testimonies of holy Scriptures and teaching of these ancient Father's? Will you not cease unjustly to bourden us, that we cavil and dally upon titles and syllables:
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whereas your self in this sentence woulde driue vs to suche an vnderstandyng of this one sillable, Js, as the like is not in ye whole Bible? But ye will aledge for your selfe,
whereas your self in this sentence would driven us to such an understanding of this one Syllable, Jesus, as the like is not in you Whole bible? But you will allege for your self,
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as you signifie in you writyng, that Ambrose, Cyprian, Chrisostome, and other auncient fathers haue in this case vsed the termes of transmutacion, alteration, conuersion, transelementation. &c. Wherby they haue plainly declared theyr meaninge to bee as yours is:
as you signify in you writing, that Ambrose, Cyprian, Chrysostom, and other ancient Father's have in this case used the terms of transmutation, alteration, conversion, transelementation. etc. Whereby they have plainly declared their meaning to be as yours is:
wherin Iesu Christ, by his vnfallible promisse, vnfeinedly geueth to the faith of his people the very fruition of his body and bloud, with the hole benefite of his precious death and passion:
wherein Iesu christ, by his unfallible promise, unfeignedly Giveth to the faith of his people the very fruition of his body and blood, with the hold benefit of his precious death and passion:
when by the power of the holy ghost & worde of god, of commen breade and wine, such as we daily féede our bodies with, is made the dredful and reuerent sacramentes and mysteries of Iesus Christ:
when by the power of the holy ghost & word of god, of come bread and wine, such as we daily feed our bodies with, is made the dreadful and reverent Sacraments and Mysteres of Iesus christ:
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so truly and vnfeinedly doeth the heauenly foode of his body and bloud toren and shed for vs, by fait h in time of that holy supper, no ryshe, strengthen, and comforte our soule:
so truly and unfeignedly doth the heavenly food of his body and blood toren and shed for us, by fait h in time of that holy supper, no ryshe, strengthen, and Comfort our soul:
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Truly when I earnestly consider the effecte of this sacrament, as it must néedes be by the trueth of Christes promises, I confesse I am not able with wordes to vtter so muche,
Truly when I earnestly Consider the Effect of this sacrament, as it must needs be by the truth of Christ's promises, I confess I am not able with words to utter so much,
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Wherfore I merueile not if those holy fathers fearinge no suche inconueniences, but lokinge rather pithely to expresse the thinge, dyd vse those earnest wordes and manners of speakinge:
Wherefore I marvel not if those holy Father's fearing no such inconveniences, but looking rather pithily to express the thing, did use those earnest words and manners of speaking:
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but when the prince hath once added to his seale, & confirmed ye graunt, it is no more called parchement or common writing, but the kinges letters patents.
but when the Prince hath once added to his seal, & confirmed you grant, it is no more called parchment or Common writing, but the Kings letters patents.
because you sée not the lāds presently, or els to conceiue with your selfe, that you haue the landes really inclosed within the compasse of your writing.
Because you see not the Lands presently, or Else to conceive with your self, that you have the Lands really enclosed within the compass of your writing.
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And you in this case might iustly saye to your friende, shewing your letters patents: Lo, here is a thousande pounde lande, that my prince hath geuen me.
And you in this case might justly say to your friend, showing your letters patents: Lo, Here is a thousande pound land, that my Prince hath given me.
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If his seale doo bryng such force & effecte to his gifte and letters patentes: How much more merueilous change, alteraciō, or transmutacion muste wée thinke it to bee:
If his seal do bring such force & Effect to his gift and letters patenes: How much more marvelous change, alteration, or transmutation must we think it to be:
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and the heritage of his heauenly kingdome? how muche more of effecte must this sacrament be, that is sealed with the promisse and wordes of our sauiour Christ:
and the heritage of his heavenly Kingdom? how much more of Effect must this sacrament be, that is sealed with the promise and words of our Saviour christ:
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who is truth it selfe, and cannot deceiue any, that trusteth in him? Wherefore, to expresse this change of the externall elementes into so heauenly misteries:
who is truth it self, and cannot deceive any, that Trusteth in him? Wherefore, to express this change of the external elements into so heavenly Mysteres:
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to withdrawe the ignorant mindes of the people from the prophane cogitacion of a bare signe in this mattier, the auncient fathers had good cause to vse suche wordes.
to withdraw the ignorant minds of the people from the profane cogitation of a bore Signen in this matter, the ancient Father's had good cause to use such words.
As for the similitude, wherewith you woulde declare the necessitie of your Labels, depending vpon the first founded absurditie, it is both of as smal force as other, that you before vsed:
As for the similitude, wherewith you would declare the necessity of your Labels, depending upon the First founded absurdity, it is both of as small force as other, that you before used:
For the drawyng of the Capons, the scumming of the potte, the stinkyng water, the hewyng of wodde, the puttyng on the broche with guttes, garbage and al. &c. Be phrases and termes more méete for the kitchinne,
For the drawing of the Capons, the scumming of the pot, the stinking water, the hewing of wood, the putting on the broche with guts, garbage and all etc. Be phrases and terms more meet for the kitchinne,
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you woulde haue sayd that wée had rayled, and done otherwise then it became vs. But sens your selfe doth so take them, wée must thinke, that God oftentimes moueth his aduersaries to vtter trueth against them selues.
you would have said that we had railed, and done otherwise then it became us But since your self does so take them, we must think, that God oftentimes moves his Adversaries to utter truth against them selves.
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But if the same maister, that you imagine to commaunde his seruaunte to make readie, that hee may dine, did meane onely that he should set vpon the table suche colde meate,
But if the same master, that you imagine to command his servant to make ready, that he may dine, did mean only that he should Set upon the table such cold meat,
And the seruaunte, vpon his owne foolish head, would mistake his maisters commaundement, & conceyuing that he woulde haue great straungers, did kill his Capons, Chickens,
And the servant, upon his own foolish head, would mistake his masters Commandment, & conceiving that he would have great Strangers, did kill his Capons, Chickens,
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if he had rightly vnderstanded his maisters will and commaundemente? Euen so sir those thynges, that you say foloweth by force of reason and argument vpon the first sentence, do folow indéede only vpon that sence, that your selfe doth imagine mistakyng your maisters wil and pleasure,
if he had rightly understanded his masters will and Commandment? Eve so sir those things, that you say Followeth by force of reason and argument upon the First sentence, do follow indeed only upon that sense, that your self does imagine mistaking your masters will and pleasure,
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Wherefore wée are not so muche to be blamed for mistrustynge the almightie power of God, whiche wée confesse to be in all thynges, that his pleasure is to haue it shewen,
Wherefore we Are not so much to be blamed for mistrusting the almighty power of God, which we confess to be in all things, that his pleasure is to have it shown,
For by the meanes of your manifolde miracles without the expresse woorde of God, whervpon mens faith in suche mattiers shoulde bee grounded, you make that sacrament a torment to trie mens weake and féeble consciences:
For by the means of your manifold Miracles without the express word of God, whereupon men's faith in such mattiers should be grounded, you make that sacrament a torment to try men's weak and feeble Consciences:
and, as a champion not méete to matche with any greate clerke, yet in suche sorte as I coulde, to resist your assaute, that you make vpon the foresayde protestacion, not as good Dauid valiantly assauted Goliath in defence of his Prince and countrey:
and, as a champion not meet to match with any great clerk, yet in such sort as I could, to resist your assault, that you make upon the foresaid protestation, not as good David valiantly assaulted Goliath in defence of his Prince and country:
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but as amorous Paris traiterously shotte at Achilles in ye behalfe of his loue Helena. For neither is it Goliath that you fight against in his brauerie,
but as Amoros paris traitorously shot At Achilles in you behalf of his love Helena. For neither is it Goliath that you fight against in his bravery,
as you say, braggynge agaynst the people of God, but rather Achilles manfully reuengynge the inceste committed with the spouse of Christe, which with your amorous cupp { is } you haue allured from him:
as you say, bragging against the people of God, but rather Achilles manfully revenging the Incest committed with the spouse of Christ, which with your Amoros cup { is } you have allured from him:
before the face of both the armies to hurle your stones, but priuely out of a corner shoote your arrowes agaynst him as Paris against Achilles. You were afrayde perhappes,
before the face of both the armies to hurl your stones, but privily out of a corner shoot your arrows against him as paris against Achilles. You were afraid perhaps,
but truly I thynke hee woulde not haue so doone, but rather, knowyng that in this quarell he coulde not be wounded, he would haue suffered you to shoote your in,
but truly I think he would not have so done, but rather, knowing that in this quarrel he could not be wounded, he would have suffered you to shoot your in,
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as for shame either you should haue runne out of the place, or at the least submitted your self & yelded to the truth, yt you protest your self to haue forsaken.
as for shame either you should have run out of the place, or At the least submitted your self & yielded to the truth, that you protest your self to have forsaken.
Consider that Iustine, Dyonisius, Cyprian, the holy counsel of Nice, withal other the auncient fathers testifie the common maner of the primatiue churche to haue ben in forme of a communion & that in both kindes.
Consider that Justin, Dionysius, Cyprian, the holy counsel of Nicaenae, withal other the ancient Father's testify the Common manner of the primitive Church to have been in Form of a communion & that in both Kinds.
Consider I say, and vnfeinedly weigh these thynges with your selfe, and ye cannot choose but se that the aucthoritie of Gods worde and consente of the primatiue churche maketh wholy with vs in these mattiers.
Consider I say, and unfeignedly weigh these things with your self, and you cannot choose but see that the Authority of God's word and consent of the primitive Church makes wholly with us in these mattiers.
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That your aucthorities out of the doctours be either abuses of the primatiue churche, or such extraordinarie cases of necessitie, contrarie to the cōmon maner,
That your authorities out of the Doctors be either Abuses of the primitive Church, or such extraordinary cases of necessity, contrary to the Common manner,
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Be not these gaye reasons thynke you to builde mens consciences vpon? Priuate Masse is nothyng but soole receiuyng in case of necessitie: therfore it is lawfull.
Be not these gay Reasons think you to build men's Consciences upon? Private Mass is nothing but fool receiving in case of necessity: Therefore it is lawful.
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How will you be able to proue that priuate Masse is nothyng but soole receiuyng in necessitie? How wyll you be able to proue, that it is al one thing for the minister in the congregacion,
How will you be able to prove that private Mass is nothing but fool receiving in necessity? How will you be able to prove, that it is all one thing for the minister in the congregation,
Let not the vayne sounde of the holy churches name, where the thynge is not, leade you to be enemie to that doctrine, whiche you se to haue more force in the worde of God.
Let not the vain sound of the holy Churches name, where the thing is not, lead you to be enemy to that Doctrine, which you see to have more force in the word of God.
The true shéepe of Christe therfore, the diligent scholars, the obediente spouse, that is, the right and true churche will harken onely to hir good shepardes voyce, will folow hir maisters preceptes, will obey hir housbandes commaundementes.
The true sheep of Christ Therefore, the diligent Scholars, the obedient spouse, that is, the right and true Church will harken only to his good shepherds voice, will follow his masters Precepts, will obey his Husbands Commandments.
How then can you excuse your selfe by your holy mother the churche, if you teache otherwise then Christe hath taught? and make suche interpretacions of your owne head as haue no grounde in his holy woorde.
How then can you excuse your self by your holy mother the Church, if you teach otherwise then Christ hath taught? and make such interpretations of your own head as have no ground in his holy word.
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This haue I framed my answere vnto you in suche sorte, as I truste the indifferent reader may iudge, that my minde and purpose is, rather directly and playnly to consute ye summe of your vntrue doctrine, thou,
This have I framed my answer unto you in such sort, as I trust the indifferent reader may judge, that my mind and purpose is, rather directly and plainly to consute you sum of your untrue Doctrine, thou,
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and indeuoured capciously to haue taken aduantage at euerie trifle, (as your sorte is wonte to deale with vs for faute of better mattier) bothe I shoulde haue fallen into that faute, that I proteste my selfe to mislyke in you,
and endeavoured capciously to have taken advantage At every trifle, (as your sort is wont to deal with us for fault of better matter) both I should have fallen into that fault, that I protest my self to mislike in you,
I haue therfore medled onely with the principall poinctes of this your Apologie, whiche may séeme to be of chiefe force in those matters that you touche:
I have Therefore meddled only with the principal points of this your Apology, which may seem to be of chief force in those matters that you touch:
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